Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Jun 6, 2022 17:09:59 GMT 10
OK... You guys are more up to date on world happenings than 98% of all the other forums I occasionally visit...
This is an interesting video of the CEO of Pilot Flying J ....an extremely large north America truck stop company... saying the rail road told them there will be a 26 to 50% reduction in the amount of fuel they will receive ...seemingly regardless of what they order...
Turns out the top of the food chain owners of the rail road are very heavy into promoting and or producing electric vehicles..
Anyone else see a pattern here..?? Possibly similar dynamics other places than north America ?? Another pattern ??
Facts, details, rumors, thoughts... ??
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Jun 6, 2022 17:27:48 GMT 10
If you were going to manipulate the market for electric wouldn't you go after gas cars first? I know diesel pickups are a pretty big market in the US but forcing diesel prices is going to effect the price of everything due to road transport costs going up. Is there even an electric long-haul truck for sale in the US yet? I don't think there is...Tesla's truck is a game changer when it comes out but its not here yet.
With Mid-terms coming up, I'd say the Dems would be sweating on this stuff and if they could influence it they would. I'm thinking it's all out of their hands.
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Post by ausprep130 on Jun 7, 2022 12:33:05 GMT 10
JCB are working on hydrogen for their machinery. The CEO makes a strong argument against battery for heavy machinery.
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Jun 7, 2022 13:34:24 GMT 10
I have seen and can't find again a short video of an electric city bus in Toronto or some place like that.. The battery is all in the roof of the bus and takes practically all the roof space..
Two busses are sitting at a stop, one has a thin bit of smoke come from the roof vent and in literally 10 seconds the whole roof was on fire.. The entire bus was consumed in a raging inferno in 15-20 seconds and consumed every bit that would burn including the pavement under and around it...
Even at city speeds if it were full of people it would have been hard pressed to stop and get everyone out in that short a time..
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Jun 7, 2022 13:59:42 GMT 10
As soon as I saw the "Lord" in front of his name I knew where it was going. This guy wants to palm off all the infrastructure and poor running costs onto the consumer of his product. He doesn't talk about any of the upstream issues with hydrogen like the energy used to liquefy it or the problems/costs with storing it.
I also dont believe that an internal combustion engine is really zero emission; A. It burns atmospheric air so it will create toxic Nitrogen by-products (zero carbon emissions but not zero emission) B. They still use hydrocarbon oils as lubricants - what about the disposal of that? Millions of litres of it from the transport industry alone. Electric engines use it too but just for gearbox lubricant...high mileage compared to these things.
I'm not anti-Hydrogen, I think aircraft will probably have to use it if they really want to reduce carbon emissions from them and if they can work out a way to store it on an aircraft. It will substantially increase the costs of air travel though.
If Europe gets it together and brings back Nuclear power (which it looks like they are), then I think Hydrogen is dead. Japan was all-in on Hydrogen too but are starting to make announcements to the contrary now...they had too much invested in ICE but I think they realise they are going to get crushed if they don't at least start looking at the other side.
The problems he lists with electric are just problems to be solved. Hydrogen is up against physics, not much room to move there! I'd convert them to run on Natural Gas until the problems are solved. Emissions yes, but I'm betting less in total to the Hydrogen thing and all the hassles with a new infrastructure.
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bug
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Post by bug on Jun 7, 2022 14:09:40 GMT 10
"Turns out the top of the food chain owners of the rail road are very heavy into promoting and or producing electric vehicles..
Anyone else see a pattern here..?? Possibly similar dynamics other places than north America ?? Another pattern ??"
Not really. When gas prices increase, so do electricity prices. The two are closely tied. Be very wary of who is saying this stuff. What is their motivation.
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Jun 8, 2022 16:13:24 GMT 10
When gas prices increase, so do electricity prices. The two are closely tied. Be very wary of who is saying this stuff. What is their motivation.
--- ---
Motivation ?? ....Let me think... $$$$$$$$$$$
I have to believe there are ways to wring $$ out of this I don't know about.. Any tie in with "save the planet" is coincidental and leverage to push the agenda for the $$....
My 5 cents of thought and opinion..
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Post by ausprep130 on Jun 8, 2022 16:22:41 GMT 10
When gas prices increase, so do electricity prices. The two are closely tied. Be very wary of who is saying this stuff. What is their motivation. --- --- Motivation ?? ....Let me think... $$$$$$$$$$$ I have to believe there are ways to wring $$ out of this I don't know about.. Any tie in with "save the planet" is coincidental and leverage to push the agenda for the $$.... My 5 cents of thought and opinion.. Any tie in with "save the planet" is coincidental smoke and mirrors and leverage to push the agenda for the $$....  |
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bug
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Post by bug on Jun 10, 2022 9:45:22 GMT 10
When gas prices increase, so do electricity prices. The two are closely tied. Be very wary of who is saying this stuff. What is their motivation. --- --- Motivation ?? ....Let me think... $$$$$$$$$$$ I have to believe there are ways to wring $$ out of this I don't know about.. Any tie in with "save the planet" is coincidental and leverage to push the agenda for the $$.... My 5 cents of thought and opinion.. Other way around. It's the oil and gas companies that are profiting here. If Australia (and others) had begun to transition away from oil a decade earlier, we'd be largely immune from this crap. More difficult for some countries, but Australia has copious quantities of sun, wind and open land to build generators. We have the bulk of the minerals required to build batteries. We had a manufacturing base which has now mostly left the country. Not sure what else we could possibly want. Interesting that Singapore clearly has realises this and is willing to build the worlds biggest undersea cable to the worlds biggest solar farm in the NT. Other foreign countries/companies want to build massive projects in WA to make clean hydrogen. We can sit here moaning about the direct result of our own inaction and poor/non-existant leadership, or we can turn the tables and make the rest of the world dependent on us for energy. Tough choice. |
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Jun 10, 2022 11:58:14 GMT 10
But not what the NWEO wants from countries though, so our so called 'leaders' continue to cow toe to the global cartels and we suffer. Simple really.
I'm not paranoid, which one of my enemies told you this ?
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Jun 10, 2022 13:10:28 GMT 10
We can sit here moaning about the direct result of our own inaction and poor/non-existant leadership, or we can turn the tables and make the rest of the world dependent on us for energy. Tough choice. Problem is; that needs investment...all the local plodders are only interested in houses...so it will take foreign money to fix it. Back to square one because it will take a generation for us to learn the lessons of investing in one sector, and by then more of our infrastructure will be owned by others.
High energy prices directly effect the cost of living and the average punter and therefore votes. I reckon the Fed. Gov. will move pretty quick on this. What will they do? Subsidise power costs? Re-Nationalise the generators? Announce a big nation-building policy to build new generation capability with new tech.? Interesting times...
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bug
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Post by bug on Jun 10, 2022 13:15:16 GMT 10
The best thing that the feds can do to get renewables on the grid is to build transmission lines and lots of them.
For the Australian owned bit, there have been quite a few Australian owned renewables companies. But they keep getting bought out by foreign interests. This is something that the FIRB really needs to look at from an energy security point of view.
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Jun 16, 2022 11:56:20 GMT 10
I have seen and can't find again a short video of an electric city bus in Toronto or some place like that.. The battery is all in the roof of the bus and takes practically all the roof space.. Two busses are sitting at a stop, one has a thin bit of smoke come from the roof vent and in literally 10 seconds the whole roof was on fire.. The entire bus was consumed in a raging inferno in 15-20 seconds and consumed every bit that would burn including the pavement under and around it... Even at city speeds if it were full of people it would have been hard pressed to stop and get everyone out in that short a time.. Paris: |
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bug
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Post by bug on Jun 17, 2022 16:37:45 GMT 10
Meh. You don't see pictures of ICE vehicles that have caught fire spread around, but when it happens to an EV pics like that always do the rounds.
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moopere
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Post by moopere on Nov 8, 2022 1:23:20 GMT 10
... More difficult for some countries, but Australia has copious quantities of sun, wind and open land to build generators. We have the bulk of the minerals required to build batteries. We had a manufacturing base which has now mostly left the country. Not sure what else we could possibly want. Interesting that Singapore clearly has realises this and is willing to build the worlds biggest undersea cable to the worlds biggest solar farm in the NT. Other foreign countries/companies want to build massive projects in WA to make clean hydrogen. I think the idea of using solar to power hydrogen plants has legs. But massive solar farms using transmission lines into populated areas ... not so much, let alone trying to push some of that power overseas. Transmission line losses are just too great once any sort of real power and distance gets involved. Pipe in seawater to a hydrogen plant that lives right beside your multi square km solar array though, ok, now we're talking, and pipe the resultant hydrogen off to where its needed. It feels to me like EV's are going to struggle to be the right solution for a low population but huge landmass like Australia. I'm not sure we'll ever be able to build enough infrastructure to transition the nations fleet. Not that building the required infra for hydrogen would be a cakewalk either, but liquid storable fuels, even hydrogen with its inherent problematic requirements do have some advantages. |
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dadbod
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Post by dadbod on Nov 8, 2022 3:27:06 GMT 10
I think you're right, and a fuel source will be used for trucks, trains, trailers etc... but i think you answered it in your comments. we are too small a population to be setting or influencing the global trend. vehicle manufacturers will follow the markets of north america and europe, and we will have to adapt to whatever they do. i doubt we will ever get a domestic manufacturer back, and couldnt maintain fossil fuels if north america and europe cut their usage.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Nov 8, 2022 7:46:11 GMT 10
Hydrogen may not be the right fuel, as it is a very slippery gas and will leak out of almost any container, even glass. However, cold fusion......there are a lot of researchers working on it right now, and if its cracked. infinite energy is built into the very fabric of creation.
Rules that guys wish girls knew.
1) Learn to use the toilet seat. If its up, put it down.
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bug
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Post by bug on Nov 8, 2022 8:32:25 GMT 10
I don't understand the hydrogen thing. It's almost as expensive as diesel and has all the same logistics problems as LPG.
Electric is the clear winner for practically every reason. God forbid, it may even force truck drivers to adhere to their mandatory rest breaks and stop sleeping truck drivers from killing other road users. With certain road freight companies relying on 457 visas for their drivers, it's getting worse than ever. This was previously largely restricted to light commercials, but is now very common for B-Doubles.
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Nov 8, 2022 9:50:05 GMT 10
I don't understand the hydrogen thing. It's almost as expensive as diesel and has all the same logistics problems as LPG. Electric is the clear winner for practically every reason. God forbid, it may even force truck drivers to adhere to their mandatory rest breaks and stop sleeping truck drivers from killing other road users. With certain road freight companies relying on 457 visas for their drivers, it's getting worse than ever. This was previously largely restricted to light commercials, but is now very common for B-Doubles. Hydrogen's problems are actually worse than LPG, mainly to do with storage and that it wrecks most materials it comes into contact with.
I agree on the electric thing except for one issue...the materials used in them. We don't have enough to switch out the current ICE stock. Maybe we can figure out alternative materials or find new supplies of the ones we're short of but it's gonna cost.
The best thing about 457 visas for truckies? Might clean up the CB conversations!
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Nov 8, 2022 11:19:56 GMT 10
In Australia the largest user of Diesel is the railroads by a very far margin then prob, trucking and farming and mining next.
Railroads have a vested interest in diesel supply and cost - without it they can't function. Getting EV etc. to reduce fuel usage would be in their playbooks nothing to do with being so called responsible citizens or green or climate change.
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