dadbod
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Post by dadbod on Jul 6, 2023 22:36:54 GMT 10
I'm sorry bce, but the world with less people is a horrible prospect, particularly for the planet. our future relies on fossil fuels and renewable energy together are required, but it all depends on how we can go dealing with a hollowing out of global demographics.
progress to a better furture is only possible at the current or higher scale of capital input. we would not be able to maintain the systems we have, let alone progress to anything better without more people. how will we maintain the extraction, production and distribution of fossil fuels and energy. we are nowhere near capable of supporting our system with renewables, and besides, a decreased population couldnt maintain it anyway.
people without access to electricity will resort to burning available coal and then wood, a far worse outcome for the environment.
life will go back to pre industrial days, except pre industrial societies were built in areas that allowed for the agricultural system to support the population. our current cities are not optimised for that, and mass migration will destroy anything in its path. if it can be consumed, it will be consumed.
life is better now than any other period in time. prior to globalisation was colonisation and empires, surely we dont want the break down of global system to that again. life was generally miserable by todays standards, even for the elites. to want to go back to before fossil fuels is lunacy.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Jul 7, 2023 4:16:21 GMT 10
I'm sorry bce, but the world with less people is a horrible prospect, particularly for the planet. our future relies on fossil fuels and renewable energy together are required, but it all depends on how we can go dealing with a hollowing out of global demographics. progress to a better furture is only possible at the current or higher scale of capital input. we would not be able to maintain the systems we have, let alone progress to anything better without more people. how will we maintain the extraction, production and distribution of fossil fuels and energy. we are nowhere near capable of supporting our system with renewables, and besides, a decreased population couldnt maintain it anyway. people without access to electricity will resort to burning available coal and then wood, a far worse outcome for the environment. life will go back to pre industrial days, except pre industrial societies were built in areas that allowed for the agricultural system to support the population. our current cities are not optimised for that, and mass migration will destroy anything in its path. if it can be consumed, it will be consumed. life is better now than any other period in time. prior to globalisation was colonisation and empires, surely we dont want the break down of global system to that again. life was generally miserable by todays standards, even for the elites. to want to go back to before fossil fuels is lunacy. Humanity is in rapid decline and accelerating, it's self correcting, for Nature it's Evolution for the Human World we are in a state of Devolution. |
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Jul 7, 2023 5:08:45 GMT 10
‘I'm sorry bce, but the world with less people is a horrible prospect, particularly for the planet. our future relies on fossil fuels and renewable energy together are required, but it all depends on how we can go dealing with a hollowing out of global demographics. progress to a better furture is only possible at the current or higher scale of capital input. we would not be able to maintain the systems we have, let alone progress to anything better without more people. how will we maintain the extraction, production and distribution of fossil fuels and energy. we are nowhere near capable of supporting our system with renewables, and besides, a decreased population couldnt maintain it anyway. people without access to electricity will resort to burning available coal and then wood, a far worse outcome for the environment. life will go back to pre industrial days, except pre industrial societies were built in areas that allowed for the agricultural system to support the population. our current cities are not optimised for that, and mass migration will destroy anything in its path. if it can be consumed, it will be consumed. life is better now than any other period in time. prior to globalisation was colonisation and empires, surely we dont want the break down of global system to that again. life was generally miserable by todays standards, even for the elites. to want to go back to before fossil fuels is lunacy.’ I love my life. I love everything it gives me. I don’t wish badness on anyone. I’m not anti-fossil fuels. I don’t want to live in a primitive society The last thing I would wish for is a global collapse and a mass die off. I just think that it is inevitable. Infinite growth on a finite planet just doesn’t work. |
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Jul 7, 2023 8:34:10 GMT 10
Saw an article this morning where they are proposing to send plants to the moon to grow, so we can always expand there !
Black holes are where God divided by zero.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Jul 7, 2023 18:29:04 GMT 10
We don’t need less people, just less dumb people. So many people intellectually challenged these days, like those agitating for caps on rent rises. That just doesn’t make sense when landlords face rapidly rising costs with interest rates, land rates, body corporate fees, insurance etc. If you want to reduce your rental stock, encourage landlords to convert to short term rentals, then capping rent rises is an excellent way to do it.
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Jul 7, 2023 20:57:03 GMT 10
While I agree that rents shouldn't be capped, with a Labour federal & mostly state governments, who would much rather put the burden on someone else rather than them giving out rent assistance (which lets face it, landlords would take advantage of), you know it's coming right? It's politically a no-brainer - who likes landlords? Everyone hates their guts! Especially at the lower end of town where the big problem is at.
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Post by Stealth on Jul 8, 2023 0:18:47 GMT 10
I don't hate landlords. In fairness, absolutely all bar one of the ones that I've had over my 25+ years of renting have actually been pretty decent folks. But you're right. The second any kind of rent relief is provided, landlords will just up the rent. The vast majority will do it because their interest rates are rising and it's either that or they sell. Their tenants will be disadvantaged whether they sell or not. Their rent goes up or they have a huge chance of loosing their home.
I just hate that renting is supposed to be the cheaper option, the one that you go for until you've got enough saved to buy. It's impossible to pay rent and save. And that suits the powers that be because they want to gouge the families in their 20 or 30 house portfolio so that they can go on international holidays every three months and drive around suburban streets at 60km an hour in a lambo in Toorak.
I have nothing against mum and dad investors with an extra property that they're hoping will fund their retirement. I even have sympathy that a lot of them are in an untenable position because they largely are happy with their tenants and don't want to lose a good tenant with plenty of history with them. But they're largely not going to get a choice, and it's going to screw over many more than just the tenants.
Anyone with more than one investment property should be taxed as a business IMO. How would that work? Dunno. But it'd reduce the amount of slumlord behaviour.
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Jul 8, 2023 11:52:31 GMT 10
I don't hate landlords. In fairness, absolutely all bar one of the ones that I've had over my 25+ years of renting have actually been pretty decent folks. But you're right. The second any kind of rent relief is provided, landlords will just up the rent. The vast majority will do it because their interest rates are rising and it's either that or they sell. Their tenants will be disadvantaged whether they sell or not. Their rent goes up or they have a huge chance of loosing their home. I just hate that renting is supposed to be the cheaper option, the one that you go for until you've got enough saved to buy. It's impossible to pay rent and save. And that suits the powers that be because they want to gouge the families in their 20 or 30 house portfolio so that they can go on international holidays every three months and drive around suburban streets at 60km an hour in a lambo in Toorak. I have nothing against mum and dad investors with an extra property that they're hoping will fund their retirement. I even have sympathy that a lot of them are in an untenable position because they largely are happy with their tenants and don't want to lose a good tenant with plenty of history with them. But they're largely not going to get a choice, and it's going to screw over many more than just the tenants. Anyone with more than one investment property should be taxed as a business IMO. How would that work? Dunno. But it'd reduce the amount of slumlord behaviour. You're such a millennial Stealth! All inclusive and hate-free! 
You need to learn to embrace your inner-hate! But seriously...(I think), I had heaps of problems with landlords in the small towns and outer suburbs I lived in...had to threaten VCAT intervention to get stuff done if it was serious. Never worried about dripping taps and leaking cisterns - used to fix it myself or pay people to do it because it wasn't worth the hassle...but heaters, air conditioning and hot water...the big ticket items were like pulling teeth. You knew the losers were on the breadline or just miserable tight-arses because they had to be THREATENED to get it fixed!
I found once I got above a certain threshold in rent (the level where most people think you're nuts for paying the amount you do) then the level of landlord ups their game. They are either wealthy Chinese parking their money off-shore and hand over all the management to an agent or other wealthy individuals who live overseas and do the same. My rent has gone up over the last year or two but way under the average.
I think anyone owning more than a property they live in should be taxed like any other business...we should be heavily discouraged from investing in property. And the people here who about this are the same people who complain that we have no manufacturing, poor infrastructure and nothing other than selling dirt to keep us afloat. We have virtually nothing value added that the rest of the world wants, and when they do (rare earths that the US wants), they set up and invest themselves and we're left with nothing again.
Last time I checked (a long time ago) our real estate market was valued at 7 Trillion - 7 with a 'T'. (I think its closer to 9 now). We have a 7 trillion asset that no one in the world wants. Think of what we could do with even $1 T of that into the ASX (ASX is worth under $2TUS) invested in companies that actually produces something? And if you think the share market is risky, well property is risky too, we have had property crashes and banks fail but it just hasn't happened in most peoples lifetime and will likely happen again.
'Clever Country' is a joke...
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Jul 8, 2023 13:08:28 GMT 10
'Clever Country' is a joke...
Australian has never been a "Clever Country" and we've certainly never really been "The lucky Country" either as far as the popular and erroneous understanding most Aussies know it as. Anyone with half a brain and the inclination to read Donald Horne's book "The Lucky Country" will soon realise we are basically a bunch of darmfarks who could've done better if it weren't for our ignorance and our luck! A direct quote:- " Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise." Nothing has changed folks, except the grubs that "lead" the country have become a little bit smarter and more developed in their awareness of the opportunities for corruption and abuse of the system! In the decades following his book's publication, Horne became critical of the "lucky country" phrase being used as a term of endearment for Australia. He commented, "I have had to sit through the most appalling rubbish as successive generations misapplied this phrase".
"Horne's book was given an unofficial sequel in 2016, with Ian Lowe's The Lucky Country? Reinventing Australia. Lowe's book addresses Horne's stance, and states that due to poor leadership, little has changed since The Lucky Country." I haven't read Lowe's book but I think I will one day! |
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Post by Stealth on Jul 8, 2023 14:12:18 GMT 10
You're such a millennial Stealth! All inclusive and hate-free! Oh don't worry, I spent long enough maintaining the rage over the years haha. But at the end of the day I think what turned me from a salty and frustrated person to a 'it is what it is' person, was seeing what real pain and suffering looks like up close and personal. It's hard to look at what some other people's entire lives are like and think that having a shitty landlord is the worst thing that could ever happen. Another person's far greater suffering doesn't diminish my own relatively minor trials and tribulations. But it sure as heck provides perspective. |
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Jul 8, 2023 16:36:39 GMT 10
My niece is renting in the Wollongong area, a 1/2 house that's so bad, the contracted cleaner by the estate agent, who is needed to do the final clean when she leaves soon, wont go into the house as its an OHS issue. Its so rotten, the floor is out by 6 to 12 inches overall, and the verandah is so bad, some areas have holes where people have fallen through it. It will be interesting when it comes to the refund of the bond as the cleaners contacted refuse to enter the house as well. The actual house is 150 years old and was built directly on the ground, no piers etc. Think its bad here, check out the 1,000's living in caravans etc along the boolavades in California and other places. www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/05/california-housing-homeless-rv-cars-bay-areawww.rvtravel.com/homeless-people-living-rvs-stretch-miles-wealthy-county-rvt-1104b/We don't have it too bad compared to that. This tagline can only be removed by the use of a special tool..... |
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captain
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Post by captain on Jul 8, 2023 21:18:32 GMT 10
My niece is renting in the Wollongong area, a 1/2 house that's so bad, the contracted cleaner by the estate agent, who is needed to do the final clean when she leaves soon, wont go into the house as its an OHS issue. Its so rotten, the floor is out by 6 to 12 inches overall, and the verandah is so bad, some areas have holes where people have fallen through it. It will be interesting when it comes to the refund of the bond as the cleaners contacted refuse to enter the house as well. The actual house is 150 years old and was built directly on the ground, no piers etc. Think its bad here, check out the 1,000's living in caravans etc along the boolavades in California and other places. www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/05/california-housing-homeless-rv-cars-bay-areawww.rvtravel.com/homeless-people-living-rvs-stretch-miles-wealthy-county-rvt-1104b/We don't have it too bad compared to that. This tagline can only be removed by the use of a special tool..... Yes - many Australian cities are also seeing a steep rise in homeless people. Google tent cities in Hobart. Plus, many people living in cars etc in my neck of the woods. There was a large group of homeless people living at the local bus interchange but they got moved on. Don’t know where to though but I have seen obvious cars/vans parked around that are used for sleeping etc. I dare say my local area isn’t the only city in Australia that is experiencing these issues. I don’t know what the answer is but the politicians seems bent on bringing in more people - mainly to kick start the economy. But there doesn’t seem to be any urgency in fixing the housing crisis. This is only going to get worse. Ghettos or camps of homeless people leads to many reasos and causes of social breakdown. Google Soweto and other similar camps or establishments in South Africa. I think South Africa is a great case study for potentially what our future will be like. So buckle up, lock up and secure your possessions and get smart on security - and pay down any debt. The next few years/decades are going to be very very tough (and I don’t think we will ever return to “good ole days”). My advice, become independent, be self sufficient, enhance your security and be prepared……in other words, society as we know it, has started to collapse. |
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Jul 9, 2023 6:40:32 GMT 10
Ghettos or camps of homeless people leads to many reasos and causes of social breakdown. Google Soweto and other similar camps or establishments in South Africa. I think South Africa is a great case study for potentially what our future will be like. So buckle up, lock up and secure your possessions and get smart on security - and pay down any debt. The next few years/decades are going to be very very tough (and I don’t think we will ever return to “good ole days”). My advice, become independent, be self sufficient, enhance your security and be prepared……in other words, society as we know it, has started to collapse. Mate do a YouTube search for white squatter camps in South Africa and the channel of BI Phakathi in SA now that's an eye opener and a view of our future in Oz! |
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Jul 9, 2023 9:01:33 GMT 10
Captain..."The next few years/decades are going to be very very tough"
I really don't think we have decades to go, a few years perhaps, and I know of some people in Texas, on the boarder, who have to carry a rifle when they check fence lines, or the missus hangs out the washing. That's the way its going.
I wouldn't shoot him Spock, it will only make him mad.
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captain
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Post by captain on Jul 9, 2023 13:35:15 GMT 10
Captain..."The next few years/decades are going to be very very tough" I really don't think we have decades to go, a few years perhaps, and I know of some people in Texas, on the boarder, who have to carry a rifle when they check fence lines, or the missus hangs out the washing. That's the way its going. I wouldn't shoot him Spock, it will only make him mad. I agree - and I don’t see it ever going back to good old days. We, as a society, have slipped down the hill, and I think it is a one way trip… |
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dadbod
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Post by dadbod on Jul 10, 2023 7:17:31 GMT 10
the housing situation in Australia is effed. Why our government optimised housing as an investment when we have productivity potential is almost criminal. we are staring down the barrel of a decreasing population and our wealth tied to housing... we're screwed and we are all going down on this ship.
if that capital were instead invested into value adding industries such as smelting, refining, agriculture, manufacturing etc. we could be setting ourselves up as future global leaders.
its a sliding doors moment for our country. we will look on housing policies and tax structures with great regret one day.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Jul 10, 2023 8:06:55 GMT 10
The world will always need food, and Australia has bags of reasonable farming land and could be a big provider, if we had Govt support. I am involved in large scale agriculture and see the results of little, or no Govt policy here. Just restrictive rules re water allocation, furtaliser prices, transport limitations and so on. The private sector is shouldering all the burden, that said, could a Govt committee manage a sustainable farming enterprise well ? Probably not due to inefficiencies, internal politics and outright waste and corruption.
The days of 'think globally, act locally' are long gone. Get yourself organized for food independence as its going to collapse shortly. And Govt jerks wont be able to do a thing about it, too little too late.
Gravity wins in the end.
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dadbod
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Post by dadbod on Jul 10, 2023 13:41:19 GMT 10
The world will always need food, and Australia has bags of reasonable farming land and could be a big provider, if we had Govt support. I am involved in large scale agriculture and see the results of little, or no Govt policy here. Just restrictive rules re water allocation, furtaliser prices, transport limitations and so on. The private sector is shouldering all the burden, that said, could a Govt committee manage a sustainable farming enterprise well ? Probably not due to inefficiencies, internal politics and outright waste and corruption. The days of 'think globally, act locally' are long gone. Get yourself organized for food independence as its going to collapse shortly. And Govt jerks wont be able to do a thing about it, too little too late. personal and country level independance is just not realistic given our markets, energy, fertiliser, machinery, and capital all (or mostly) come from outside our borders. there's no escaping the collapse of globalisation while maintaining what we currently have. sure you can stockpile, but thats not even a mid term plan. we will have to adapt. if fossil fuels stop, everything will stop. we dont have a replacement in place at scale. |
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Jul 10, 2023 14:00:51 GMT 10
"if fossil fuels stop, everything will stop. we don't have a replacement in place at scale." Not necessarily, clever preppers will have their backup plan. In our case, solar with a generator powered by wood-gas. A tractor also wood powered, or even a steam engine, and, yes, they are still available.
I myself think turbines are better, but not on light road vehicle loads though as they spin too fast, ideal fr generators, water pumps etc. And the comment re fertilizer is very pertanant, especially since without access to cheap oil, production stops, apart from some blood and bone from abituars, but that would stop as well, so back to making your own compost. The day will come when the steam powered traction engines, presently residing as static displays in parks and so on, will be resurrected, rebuilt and used as they were intended to be. Stockpiling gives you the breathing space to get off your a..e, get your s..t together and get productive using older fashioned methods of farming. Perhaps even animals will make a come back. And who knows how to plough using bullocks any more ? Without access to cheap oil, society is finished as it is now. Whats your long term fuel plan ? One can only store so much diesel etc before it will go bad, even if stored unopened, the manufacturers have made sure it will go bad eventually. This is by design. There will always be trees. Seeing the high rise buildings in various U Tube vids, gives me shivers knowing the people in them are mostly doomed to starvation WTSHTF. 20 years ago we bugged out of town, and even I'm not sure we would survive from our land for years if we didn't have the usual inputs of potting mixes, seeds, etc available cheaply and easily now. Imagine life without Bunnings ! Ultimately, skills trump supplies and tools. With the right knowledge, you can make just about any tool you need. |
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dadbod
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Post by dadbod on Jul 11, 2023 8:02:44 GMT 10
My plan is to be adaptable. have preps to cover short term, but the resources to move and adapt when required.
I kind of agree regarding your skills comment, but think being able to learn and adapt would be higher on that spectrum of utility.
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