plan Z

Well then he would take that value in clothes and trade with the person who has something he wants, or transfer the debt to the person he wants something off of.

I don't like this concept, what about old people, or the disabled, or a newly single mum with a baby too young to leave, or a man who's just broken his back farming and needs recovery time as well as time to reskill? Welfare exists in this day for a good reason. It's abused for all the wrong reasons and I think we'd do a good job of weeding out the people that are abusing it, but some people would legitimately need it either temporarily or permanently.

I like a combo of money and barter for acquiring goods, have a set dollar value, but people can also agree on trade if that works.

I've worked in a retirement village, as a personal carer in people's homes, and studied special education; and there are certain times when some people just wouldn't be able to contribute. I agree with the need to set something up to look after those that can't look after themselves for whatever reason.

The trouble with all this is the onus is on the poor plumber to hunt around for other barterers. The seamstress is happy, she got a job done and offloaded some clothes, meanwhile the plumber has ute load of t-shirts and has to either find a t-shirt retailer that will take the lot or find 200 people who each want a single t-shirt, and what will these people give the plumber? The blacksmith only wants a single t-shirt but the smallest thing he has to offer is a plough. A plough is worth 200 t-shirts but who the heck wants to store all those t-shirts and the blacksmith is smarter than the plumber, no way he wants them. So as I said the seamstress is fine, but the plumber has "useless" objects and days or even weeks of frigging around to offload them, assuming he can at all.

Similar with the potatoes, the cobbler is happy because if the potato owner can organise things it's a straight swap, the potato owner has to go find someone who not only wants potatoes but also has what the cobbler wants. How much time does the potato owner spend on this non-productive task? Will he even find someone. Let's say the cobbler (C) needs tacks, potato owner (P) doesn't have tacks but after searching for a day he finds builder (B1) who doesn't have tacks but does have nails, however he hates potatoes and will only swap the nails for radishes, P knows of radish grower R, R will swap radishes for potatoes, thank goodness for that. P now has something that B1 wants, he returns to B1 but B1 will only swap nails in 1000 lots. Whatever. P is pretty pissed off by now, he's not doing anything productive and his old boots aren't getting any better with all this walking around, so he does the deal. Now he has 1000 nails but C needs tacks not nails, so P finds the blacksmith (B2). B2 will make tacks from the nails but in return he wants charcoal. Now P has to find charcoal but by this time he is so over the whole damn thing he returns to the cobbler, belts him over the head, takes the boots and leaves 100 nails, the bloody cobbler can go find charcoal for the blacksmith.

And all is for items of roughly equal value, nobody has answered my builder/baker or tractor/chicken scenario.

What you need is a trader (T), he has a building in town where he stores all manner of things, most of which he has no use for but he knows that other people will need them over time. T buys things from everyone else and resells them with a markup. C has a few pairs of boots in the store, P sells his potatoes to T as well, and depending on the relative value he gets some boots in part payment or he makes up the difference with either currency or he gets credit (just a form of currency) and takes the boots now.

I know barter worked for ages and still does in some places, I just don't see how, maybe in the simplest of societies or at a very simple level of a complex society, but like I said currency has been around for at least 9000 years.

I can see it working in a very small community where everyone has a "product" that's of similar value, everyone knows everyone else so there's no searching for things because you know where everything is, everyone is happy with a similar level of luxury, and everyone can build their own house and other major items or you have the community do this, IE everyone helps build everyone else's house (barn raising).

I've got no problem with barter, but I think you need currency as well.

This is 90% fantasy, and with knowledge of a set location (it may even be in wa, no one has floated any locations that tick any boxes yet, is just for the plan z, that's more a safety network)

Let's say you're unlucky, you have your bol, lived there safely for 3 months but a natural disaster destorys it, all supplies, rebuilding equipment, all you have is a bob and rubbish to your name... (This is likely) what next?? (Treat this to back up of back ups) or... For some reason (the evil 2 legged animal kind) if you stay = slavery

The location idea is completely open for debate (if it be in WA, TAS, NSW, anywhere??) And expected numbers will be around 1500 people

The idea is focused around a moral boost and even when all hope is lost (the lowst point) there is a last goal/misson

To the "trade debate"

Currency I am a huge supporter of gold and silver...

Barter, substituted with coin, eg, like the plumber, he may accept 3 new shirts and then some coins to cover his expense, but trade on this level will take a very long time to be established (looking at 5 years +)

And then there is tax, (the evil T word) but defense forces need to be paid, a basic welfare system provided, there is so much in this area to discuss

But lets go to the real beginning... Location, location, location... This alone is a hard debate...

It needs to be firtile land
It needs to be a lower risk of natural disaster
It needs to have access to water

My extra rule, has to stay above freeing most of the year

Well I'm a little biased to small islands, preferred island chains or 2 or 3 large ones, but islands are not perfect, natural disaster risk from the sea is always high, in the form of tsunamis (risk is lower in the Tasman sea)

Then the space to produce enough food/manage waste of 1500 people makes it hard... And almost poor option, but easier to defend than some areas,

That could actually be feasible. ..

Stepford - the only issue i see with that is who decides the 'credit' worth of each item? That could be open to a lot of abuse as suddenly family members crops are worth a lot more then they should be