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Post by Peter on Aug 16, 2017 21:45:35 GMT 10
Another pop quiz...
You're in a period of WROL, bugging in in a suburban home where you are a visitor.. You have noticed a mob of about 20 MZB's (that is, "mutant zombie bikers" as James Wesley, Rawles would say) is going house-to-house down your suburban street, thoroughly pillaging each house as they go. They're apparently bringing all types of harm to everyone they encounter in each house as you hear screaming and gunshots. They're now three houses from you. Five of them cleared out the last house in around 10 minutes, while leaving the rest of them to keep a lookout until the next house is invaded. Every person is well armed with a mix from knives, handguns, rifles, and shotguns. You notice that at least one of the lookouts has an AR15.
You have yourself (who, as a good little prepper, is well trained in defending your own house), but there's also your young children and your spouse who's never really gotten into preparedness training and firearm use as you have. That said, you're only equipped with a basic rifle and a DB shotty. You have hundreds of rounds of ammo for each of the rifle and shotty close at hand. You have the normal supplies found in an unprepared house (eg kitchen, laundry, pantry, shed, etc...)
Think quick. What do you do in the assumed 30 minutes until they break down your door. You don't want to bring attention to yourself.
Go!
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Aug 16, 2017 22:38:37 GMT 10
Fight or flee if it is to fight then some of the following..
Barricade every doors with furniture like a fridge. Take wire and rope make like spider nest in front of all big windows and likely entry points.
The old plank of wood with nails or screws pushed through. If you don't have any nails then will have to rapidly dismantle a bookshelf or something and get some.
at each potential entry point put water jam marbles strewn furniture and trip hazards like more rope at chin height. Basically the inside perimeter of the house is a junk pile of furniture. Put the fridge and freezer at either end of the passageway, with other furniture to make a corral with the intention to defend the area between the master bedroom and living area, with some option to escape through a secondary bedroom.
Will contact the next door neighbours and offer them refuge for joint defence, so it is not divide and conquer. So there will be more adults in the house to defend. Dogs go in the house in the bathroom with children. Best weapon is a knife duck-taped to the end of a broom stick. Each person will get a knife for close hand to hand combat.
Position the wife in the passage with vision on both sides but no direct vision from outside the house with the rifle. Position any other adults with home made spear in bedrooms leading to the passage, to stab the buggers as the climb through the window and get stuck or trip etc.. Climb into the roof where it overhangs the front door and wait for them, as soon as they approach the front door blast then through the ceiling with both barrels of the shotty. That will take 2-3 down easily. Read the situation and step back a few paces and jump through the ceiling into the house. Reload shotty and climb over the barricade into the passageway or move to the other entry point were you saw persons approach the house. (will need to keep visual on the method they use to enter neighbours property).
Then it is simply try and shoot the buggers on entry to the house. Swap the DB and take the rife and snipe the AR15 guy if possible. If there is another able body person a neighbour perhaps that can use firearms put him on the roof withe the rife to snipe.
What can go wrong....... If one is in that kind of situation things have already gone very badly. In Australia people tend of flee when there are gunshots, and there are no medical facility to patch you up so people will be more cautious if a few get killed, and hopefully move out to an easier target.
Snipe the guy with the AR15 one shot - it is very difficult to tell where the shot came from if only one round. It will make them a bit more cautious but not having to deal with overwhelming cover fire might be worth it. It might also result in the house being firebombed. I think too much of a risk.
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Post by Peter on Aug 16, 2017 23:08:44 GMT 10
It might also result in the house being firebombed. I think too much of a risk. I think that's key - as you don't know how much ammo they have, you don't know if they'll move on or shred the place with a million rounds. Great ideas. Keep them coming...
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token
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Post by token on Aug 17, 2017 0:36:21 GMT 10
Crawl out of the house through the neighbors fence with the family taking as much as we could carry.
Before going, open all the gas up in the house and cook off a can of fly spray on 30min in the microwave.
Also light some small fires in the house to burn the joint down.
The distraction should give more attention to the house than us having left.
From there get out of the entire place head bush.
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Aug 17, 2017 1:56:31 GMT 10
Quickly trash the house to make it look like it has already been 'raided'. Wont stop anything but in my mind it'll increase the chances of there being something left behind.
Take the BoB, a few valuables, the firearms and tent, then flee on foot with the family. I believe there's just no reason to engage such a group when you're outnumbered & outgunned, everything to loose nothing to gain, especially with family present.
The plan would be to scout back alone in a day or so... then return with the family to the house to rebuild/reassess.
I think this scenario shows us the value of having hidden preps in multiple locations in the house, along with caches on your own property. I think unless you own a retreat property, you'll eventually return to your home in most scenarios so taking steps to preserve your resources whilst it's abandoned is a good step (ideally before you only have 30 minutes left!).
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ygidorp
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Post by ygidorp on Aug 17, 2017 12:22:02 GMT 10
If you have a subfloor space or similar you can access and hide in, do it. If 5 people spent 10 minutes clearing out a house, they're not doing a good job. It's a smash and grab. Prepare to bug out if hiding places do not exist.
30 armed vs 2 armed is suicide, especially after they have already demonstrated means and intent to kill. 30 minutes of prep time is not going to give you enough of a dig in to fight off 10 to 1 odds. If you think otherwise, you've watched Home Alone too many times, or your house is already a death trap.
If some supplies have not been packed for bugging out, you've already made a very grave mistake.
Improvise incendiaries and smoke making devices from household goods (should have already prepared some on standby prior this even occurring). Firearms should be considered to fight a rear guard action rather than offensively. If you can access the rear of the adjacent property with relative safety, firebomb it before leaving as a distraction. Throw incendiaries to cover your exit. If sighted, use heavy fire to suppress and try to convince them there are more armed people than there actually is. Doesn't matter how many bullets you have left if you're dead.
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Post by ziggysdad on Aug 17, 2017 14:45:46 GMT 10
Not my house - we're squatting anyway - so I would grab everything of value that can be carried and take my family out the back. Stay low, be quiet and get as far away as possible.
If immediate shelter is an issue, you can always circle around to one of the houses they've already cleared (or wait them out and return to the house you've vacated after an hour or so).
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ygidorp
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Post by ygidorp on Aug 17, 2017 17:27:14 GMT 10
bugging in in a suburban home where you are a visitor.. It's not in your house. Really well thought out scenario, as it removes the toys/setup you'd normally have and forces you to make a quick decision with less than optimal conditions. Makes you realise decision making + skills > tools.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Aug 17, 2017 17:58:52 GMT 10
It might also result in the house being firebombed. I think too much of a risk. I think that's key - as you don't know how much ammo they have, you don't know if they'll move on or shred the place with a million rounds. Great ideas. Keep them coming... I have taken some precautions against vehicle trying to ram my house, there are some serious threats that need to be considered. I still think most looters will bugger off if a gun fight erupts there are so many other easier targets to get. But I like the confrontation nothing like a good gun fight to get the blood flowing both internally and externally. An alternative is to get the non combatants out to a safe place if doable. Climb on the neighbours roof one or two houses closer to the raiders and snipe the guy with the AR15 then run and play a cat and mouse game keeping them busy for a few hours and disrupt their looting strategy before they get to the house where your family is. One would also hope that other neighbours would by then be able to mount some sort of defence making it more difficult for them. If you snipe and run they will have to break up into small groups or individuals to try and corner you which increases your opportunity by divide and conquer strategy. Till they chase you up a certain road where the guy with the DB is sitting behind a bush and one of the divided group gets stuck in the cross fire. On a side note the history books are full of examples where the victory has gone to those who were hopelessly out numbers an the attackers had better technology. Raiders in that sort of setting get a blood lust and go made and throw caution to the wind - a little bit of careful planning and one has a good chance to take them out.
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Morgo
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Post by Morgo on Aug 17, 2017 21:32:31 GMT 10
The only viable option is to leave.
You can't win against that many (not with a bolt gun and DB shottie anyhow) and even if you could keep them out they'll just burn the house down with you inside.
Take what you can and leave as quickly and quietly as possible. Its not your place anyhow so you have somewhere to go.
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Aug 18, 2017 0:36:54 GMT 10
There's always the temptation to want to stand your ground and defend yourself. If you were rural on land you were familiar with, neighbours you could count on and had the terrain that would give you an advantage... then maybe. Given we're talking suburbia & you're in unfamiliar territory I just can't see how it makes sense.
What really did it for me though:
"...but there's also your young children and your spouse who's never really gotten into preparedness training and firearm use as you have."
I have zero interest in leaving my family to hide somewhere with the knowledge that I'm going off to a gunfight. Not even thinking about what will happen if anything goes wrong. Best case scenario they still go through absolute terror without their father there, not something I'm willing to let happen. It's a loose/loose situation...
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Aug 18, 2017 7:11:05 GMT 10
There's always the temptation to want to stand your ground and defend yourself. If you were rural on land you were familiar with, neighbours you could count on and had the terrain that would give you an advantage... then maybe. Given we're talking suburbia & you're in unfamiliar territory I just can't see how it makes sense.
What really did it for me though:
"...but there's also your young children and your spouse who's never really gotten into preparedness training and firearm use as you have."
I have zero interest in leaving my family to hide somewhere with the knowledge that I'm going off to a gunfight. Not even thinking about what will happen if anything goes wrong. Best case scenario they still go through absolute terror without their father there, not something I'm willing to let happen. It's a loose/loose situation...
Either way there are risks. The raiders might have a group at the back who are expecting people to flee with goods and pick them off in the open. It is a fluid situation with no really good options. Also a bit unrealistic as in a situation where all law an order has failed most would start taking some precautions. But I think good to discuss what strategies are available not just I will run away.
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fei
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Post by fei on Aug 18, 2017 11:02:07 GMT 10
Also a bit unrealistic as in a situation where all law an order has failed most would start taking some precautions. But I think good to discuss what strategies are available not just I will run away. I guess it depends on how far into the WROL situation you are. If its only a day or so, then many people may still be at home, waiting for things to get back to normal. But yes, if its already a couple of weeks, I would have thought that people would both be more prepared and would also have formed some sort of neighbourhood watch / street committee etc type arrangement.
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ygidorp
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Post by ygidorp on Aug 18, 2017 11:18:52 GMT 10
On a side note the history books are full of examples where the victory has gone to those who were hopelessly out numbers an the attackers had better technology. Raiders in that sort of setting get a blood lust and go made and throw caution to the wind - a little bit of careful planning and one has a good chance to take them out. If you have a semi auto, reasonable calibre with a bunch of 20 to 30 round capacity magazines, then maybe as they are standing around outside you can hit enough of them to cause panic and withdrawal. You can guarantee they'll come back for revenge though. If you have a bolt action and DB shotgun vs AR15s though, not good odds. The history books might have examples of victory against superior numbers because it makes better reading. Reading about 2 people getting butchered by 30 doesn't make inspirational reading.
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feralemma
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Post by feralemma on Aug 18, 2017 12:33:41 GMT 10
If you are a visitor in someone's home, it means you got there somehow so most likely have a vehicle with some fuel in it, and the homeowners would likely have at least one vehicle as well.
Firstly I'd grab whatever I could as weapons, the guns and any ammo obviously, plus axes, large knives, cleaning chemicals, fuel and oil from the shed, flammables etc. Get all children and adults into 2 vehicles (our family struggles to fit in one vehicle, so adding in whoever we are visiting means we definitely won't all fit in one), make a quick escape route plan and possible meeting points should we get seperated and the GTFO as quickly as possible without having to go past the bikers.
Weapons and fuel,oil, chemicals and flammables can all be used to fend them off and slow them down. Having a 4wd is definitely a big advantage over bikes especially once off main roads.
Given that we would be escaping in our own vehicle we already have water etc in it so wouldn't waste time grabbing any of that stuff from the house. And valuables are only valuable in the eye of the beholder....if they are looking for jewellery, money, big tvs they are welcome to whatever is left behind in the house, especially as it isn't ours in the first place.
Warning the neighbours may be a choice, although with time being tight it may not be an option. Having more people getting out real quick could help in creating cover and safety in numbers, but could also create a headache or potentially fatal roadblock if they get taken down and block our escape route.
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token
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Post by token on Aug 18, 2017 13:38:33 GMT 10
If you have a bolt action and DB shotgun vs AR15s though, not good odds. I disagree. A bolt action or shotty in the right hands can be lethal over and above a semi or full auto. It depends on whose hands what is in.
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Morgo
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Post by Morgo on Aug 18, 2017 14:14:54 GMT 10
If you have a bolt action and DB shotgun vs AR15s though, not good odds. I disagree. A bolt action or shotty in the right hands can be lethal over and above a semi or full auto. It depends on whose hands what is in. Most definitely, one on one the guy with the bolt gun will likely have better range and accuracy giving him some advantage. When its one guy with a bolt gun though vs 30 guys with various weapons including atleast one semi auto rifle, those are not good odds.
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Post by WolfDen on Aug 18, 2017 17:51:26 GMT 10
Bugging out right away. Grab what I can and go.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Aug 18, 2017 20:31:06 GMT 10
Although there are 20 of them, they would prob be going around in teams of 3-4 per house. If you take the guys out that enter the house where you are - the other would not know if it was there own guys shooting or someone else. You would have to take the team entering the house were you are then snipe the guy with the AR.. They would still be confused as to where the gunfire was coming from if you snipe the guy with one shot.. It will then be a judgement of fight or flee It is not a military operation and there is no casevac, I am not sure how determined they will be if they hit some strong resistance. They also would not know of your numbers and weapons. But showing a willingness to fight might be enough for them to move on.
On another note I don;t think bugging out is wise in most situations. But one does need friends. I have one hunting buddy that is also prepping, I have a neighbour across the road from us that also hunts and a few other families that we could team up with. The neighbourhood where I stay has only one tared road access and there is a bridge on the road, that can be blocked and barricaded make it too hard or inconvenient for any gang to contemplating breaching it... It is not only the bad guys that can have gangs and strong comunities.
Top 10 Sheep Dog Gangs That Will Form After The Collapse
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Post by Peter on Aug 18, 2017 21:23:43 GMT 10
I'm seriously impressed with the thought that's being given, and the angles from which everyone's approaching this. Great stuff.
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