tactile
Senior Member
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 483
|
Post by tactile on Jun 5, 2023 11:59:01 GMT 10
Comments are interesting and mostly positive.
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Jun 5, 2023 12:48:57 GMT 10
Summed it up quite well. Except the part about the blockade of Australia from imports by sea.
We would survive, quite well thank you very much. We feed a lot of the world, so food production would be OK, we do have a lack of oil, but heaps of gas and coal, so energy isn't a real issue.
The elites and their coffee sipping latte junket overseas trips may be inconvenienced, but so what.
What we lack is a mindset like the USA. And of course, an armed population. To invade the USA would be suicidal, but relatively easy to invade Australia, and that may be our weakness. Once my 10,000 rounds are gone, I may be in a bit of strife as well !
Technology may be another issue, the latest mobile phones and so on may not be available for a while, so some will be going 'cold turkey' withdrawing from that particular technology.
Hopefully we wont go as 'woke' as they are, and will keep a vision clear as to where we need to be in the future.
All in all, I believe we are in the safest country, maybe NZ may be better, but its likely to slide into the Pacific Ocean with an earthquake.
As for nuke subs, they could make us a target, but there is no doubt that they are considered better technology wise (quieter etc), than diesel/electric and maybe we should be getting experience with that side of tech.
Prayer is not the backup plan....prayer is the plan !
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Jun 5, 2023 13:30:37 GMT 10
It might not surprise many of you that the specific reported retention bonuses started being paid to members almost two years ago. It's just only going to the media now. It obviously has been in the White Papers every year, but it conveniently hasn't suited anyone to write a story about it until now. Retention bonuses happen with startling regularity. At least, at a regularity that most people on the outer probably would be startled by. It's generally different trades each time because the ebb and flow of recruiting different trades has a cycle and therefore so too does retention problems.
The problem is that there's about a five year gap that is happening and that's why it's so dire at the moment. There's a bit of winding road to explain this, but if you can sit through it it'll help to make it make sense. I'll try to simplify it but this is how I see it.
Pension/Super plans;
DFRDB - 1972 - 1991: Full pension on retirement. Can't find the info but I'm pretty sure you could start drawing pension at 50. Happy to be corrected on that. Rate increased for years of service with most benefits achieved at around 20+ years of service. Once you hit the highest cap you were set up for retirement in comfort. Pension is paid in perpetuity. MSBS - 1991 - 2016: Full pension on retirement. You can draw your pension at 55. Rate is based on your final annual salary, so staying in longer to increase your rank and therefore your pay was/is beneficial. Pension is paid in perpetuity, and while the rate is not as juicy as DFRDB you also can elect to receive the portion of your Super that you paid (rather than the gov as your employer) as part of your pension OR take it as a lump sum. Either way, you have a guaranteed pension amount that is indexed against CPI which you can also offset by the Age or War pension if they still exist at retirement. ADF Super - 2016 - Current: 16% Super instead of the standard 10.5%. That's it. You can draw your Super at retirement at 67. Have fun if you'd planned on being a lifer and your role was physically draining because you're probably going to get to 8-10 years and need to retire from your physically demanding job. Then you're going to be back out in the job market with everyone else because you can't draw your pension until you're 67.
That is, DFRDB-ers were basically given golden handcuffs. If you were on that scheme and you got out before 20 years frankly you were a bit nutty. Or just so over it that the thought of being set up for the rest of your days wasn't appealing enough. Even a salty Lance-Jack-For-Life would have retired in comfort. MSBS-ers get a sneaky benefit of gaining extra benefits at eight years (your pension indexation and Defence Home Ownership Scheme rate jump significantly). From there it's only a hop, skip and a jump to long service leave so of course you stay at least the extra two years to get to ten years. I will forever be grateful to the salty SNCO who strongly advised me against switching over when they started telling us about this new scheme that was going to becoming out in a few years' time. ADF Super kids, frankly, got shafted. Sure, they get extra Super paid into their fund every year. BUT they also get no pension. Zip. Zilch. The medical pension that's provided if you're unable to work due to injury is about the same as industry standard and it's not a pension so much as an insurance payment. From what I hear you have to fight every step of the way to get and keep it.
That 'hidden from the public' retention function no longer exists. People who're irritated, disillusioned or just plain not feeling it anymore have no carrot to keep on trucking. You get 16.5% on your super which is a massive amount but when it's 'invisible money' because you don't see it in your pocket on pay day, a lot of younger troops look at that and think "yeah cool story, but it doesn't help me now". I probably would have the same attitude if I were only 18-19 and looking at my options after my first four years. How do you stop that from happening? Offer them a bucket of cash which is actually a drop in the ocean compared to what you used to give them over the course of an individual's retirement. Problem is, that's not working. The younger generation are looking at it and saying "yeah but I can get that retention bonus as an annual pay increase if I get out so thanks but no thanks".
The simplest explanation is often the correct answer. It's not morale. It's not wokeism. It's people realising that the grass is greener elsewhere and acting on that fact.
But with all the wardog talk going on and China being China, retention bonuses suddenly newsworthy. It's just that they're really only reporting the outcome of the problems rather than what's actually causing the problems in the first place. The gradual and casual degradation of benefits that used to be enough to make people hang around for a bit longer, and the refusal to keep up with cost of living to ensure your members feel fairly remunerated for their efforts.
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Jun 5, 2023 13:51:21 GMT 10
What we lack is a mindset like the USA. And of course, an armed population. To invade the USA would be suicidal, but relatively easy to invade Australia, and that may be our weakness. Once my 10,000 rounds are gone, I may be in a bit of strife as well ! The prevalent mindset of the USA is fear. They're not resilient. They are reactive rather than proactive. They drive themselves apart until they have no choice but to work together, and their ability to work well together is based entirely on how scared they are. They're absolutely a force to be reckoned with as soon as their fear of others bands them together rather than their fear of each other pushing them apart. But fear. That's what drives them as a nation. I don't see that as a mindset to be envious of. I see it as something to pity. They're a dog that barks at everything and everyone so that you can't tell when there's a real threat. It's all just angry noise. I have individual Americans that I've known and loved for years. They're fantastic people, and for the most part generous to a fault. A little bit uptight at times, but still fun and caring. But as a nation? Scared. And hiding that fear behind shouting and angry gesturing. No thanks. Living a fearful life is exhausting. She'll be right, mate. A gun behind every blade of grass. No wonder they're scared of each other.
|
|
frostbite
VIP Member
Posts: 5,722
Likes: 7,121
Member is Online
|
Post by frostbite on Jun 5, 2023 14:25:33 GMT 10
The best career in ADF was sign up, do a tour or two at $10k per month tax free, use that as a deposit on a house or two, get some decent qualifications then discharge and start earning big dollars on civi street. Like double your ADF pay. Exactly what little miss did.
|
|
tactile
Senior Member
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 483
|
Post by tactile on Jun 5, 2023 14:33:06 GMT 10
Summed it up quite well. Except the part about the blockade of Australia from imports by sea. We would survive, quite well thank you very much. We feed a lot of the world, so food production would be OK, we do have a lack of oil, but heaps of gas and coal, so energy isn't a real issue. Problem is, a lot of what we produce has foreign inputs. We get a lot of out fertiliser from overseas for example...something we are proactivity working on at the moment but still quite a few years off from...if ever in regards to potash. We dont make any agricultural equipment either...how long can we maintain out stock?
There are a lot of things we would be exposed to now...in a few years maybe we would be better off, but I doubt it. I think we would get thrown back to a pre-WW2 era where we would be scrambling around to do patch-up jobs and the government would be confiscating everything of value.
As you said, we would survive but it would be tough on many people that's for sure.
|
|
tactile
Senior Member
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 483
|
Post by tactile on Jun 5, 2023 14:35:24 GMT 10
The best career in ADF was sign up, do a tour or two at $10k per month tax free, use that as a deposit on a house or two, get some decent qualifications then discharge and start earning big dollars on civi street. Like double your ADF pay. Exactly what little miss did. What field is she in? Every ADF person in my field I have come across was unemployable.
|
|
frostbite
VIP Member
Posts: 5,722
Likes: 7,121
Member is Online
|
Post by frostbite on Jun 5, 2023 14:49:12 GMT 10
Signals
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Jun 5, 2023 15:25:26 GMT 10
The Yanks were not always like that, only in comparatively recent times, hell, I can remember in the 60's that the USA was the kings of the world.
"Problem is, a lot of what we produce has foreign inputs. We get a lot of out fertiliser from overseas for example...something we are proactivity working on at the moment but still quite a few years off from.."
True, generally, but, involved in agriculture as I am, we source almost all our fertilizer from the waste (blood and bone) from various abattoirs. Its enough for the few thousand acres we farm, but wouldn't supply all that's needed.
Port Kembla had a reasonably modern fertilizer plant in the 70's and 80's. so we do know how to do it, it would take time to ramp up production but we wouldn't starve.
I agree that modern agriculture equipment is too technical and needs lots of specialized maintenance and parts that wouldn't be obtainable, but we do have a lot of family farms and there are a lot of older headers, planters etc rusting away on these properties that could be rebuilt as they are not high tech. Time would be the issue, and yes, it would be a belt tightening period, but we would survive as a nation. Unlike China who would be in trouble if they were blockaded.
A man’s rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Jun 5, 2023 15:43:22 GMT 10
I'm a little jealous, your daughter got out before the trips dried up then! I got a single trip out of my 11 years, and a huge chunk of the folks I worked with never got to go anywhere despite being keen and good candidates. The trips were largely being gatekept by a certain group of people for a few years and management of the selection process was taken off them as a result, but it was on the wind-down regardless. Of course, the retention issues on my service alone caused a lot of those problems. Can't release someone for six months to a year if you haven't got anyone to fill that spot. But after seeing the writing on the wall (combo of injury and lack of effective pay increase) I used the system to retrain and move on. I was fortunate that the one trip that I DID manage to snag gave us a small buffer in case of emergencies but we've definitely saved and been far more financially stable since I left the uniform.
But that's the thing, anyone in any trade with more than two braincells to rub together is currently doing exactly the same 'retrain and leg it', and therein lies the problem. Bulk people seeing the gradual whittling away of benefits that have been assumed as standard for decades and thinking "Well I can get more out so why would I stay in?". There's only so long you can trade on loyalty before people start to get jaded.
And then what happens when suddenly we're on a war footing? I know that there's a lot of us who likely would get the shouldertap to come back. I do know that a massive chunk of the younger kids that I signed up with had no idea that they were on the hook for five years after discharge though. They always looked shocked when I told them that. Like, did you not READ your contract?
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Jun 5, 2023 16:31:33 GMT 10
"And then what happens when suddenly we're on a war footing? "
A letter arrives, by registered mail, you cant refuse, be at the local recruiting office at such a time.
Welcome back, here's a rifle, f..k off and defend your country.
Thank goodness I'm too old now for National Service. I probably couldn't pass a decent medical, nor could I see far enough to be useful. However, being a Tradie with an Engineering Certificate, may be a NCO position I couldn't refuse.
My papers said until the age of 65 I could be called back up, when did it change ?
When the whole world is running towards a cliff, he who is running in the opposite direction appears to have lost his mind. CS Lewis
|
|
frostbite
VIP Member
Posts: 5,722
Likes: 7,121
Member is Online
|
Post by frostbite on Jun 5, 2023 16:36:39 GMT 10
My daughter got lucky, she got her first posting not long before that battle group were ramping up to cover TL and Afghan. She performed well on deployment, grabbing every opportunity to get outside the wire, volunteering for everything. Not long after returning home she got offered another trip, without the deployment pay (Malaysia from memory) so turned that down. An infantry guy from her recruit platoon missed out completely on a tour and he really lost his s h I t, eventually discharging and burning his uniform over his washing line. And that guy bled green, his entire back tattooed with the Ode and a soldier at rest. The competition for slots overseas was really intense. Probably more so these days.
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Jun 5, 2023 17:08:38 GMT 10
For me, prepping is a state of mind that is grounded in the core belief that YOU and only YOU are responsible for your own well-being.
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Jun 5, 2023 17:22:28 GMT 10
"And then what happens when suddenly we're on a war footing? " A letter arrives, by registered mail, you cant refuse, be at the local recruiting office at such a time. Welcome back, here's a rifle, f..k off and defend your country. Thank goodness I'm too old now for National Service. I probably couldn't pass a decent medical, nor could I see far enough to be useful. However, being a Tradie with an Engineering Certificate, may be a NCO position I couldn't refuse. My papers said until the age of 65 I could be called back up, when did it change ? Probably wouldn't be a letter these days, it'd be an email followed up by a phone call if you didn't respond, and then grumpy cops on your doorstep. Likely piloting a Hertz mini-bus around each city/suburb/regional area to pick up anyone that didn't show up. Anyone from a critical trade would get a phone call probably as the 'send' button was being hit. The standard now is a five-year period in the inactive reserve category (at least it was when I enlisted, but I have no reason to believe that's changed) but after that you're a free agent. I don't think they'd hold anyone to the age of 65 that would have been from your generation until they'd filled every spot they were able to with non-retirement age folks. And I think it's likely that they'd look at anyone that was in the five year return call up list and call them first, then the medical retirement five year list (because in a war no one cares if you can run 2.4km in under however many minutes if your job is to make sure requisition forms are filled out to get supplies out, or you spend your day filing medical documents), then anyone that's been out another five years max on top of that. That would give you the best chance at wrangling people with relatively recent training and experience in the current services. Anything past that and you're looking at full retraining to get folks up to speed on new tech and new methods so you might as well take fresh meat off the street. Of course I have no doubt they'd happily take any volunteers that have a specific skill like engineers. But I think it's unlikely that they'd try to wedge aged retirees into a uniform again. They'd likely ask people to agree to an individual contractor position that would be stood up specifically for that kind of situation. Trainers and educators, skilled individuals etc. That way you still get paid but you're not on their books as a 'them problem' specifically. Basically I can't be certain but I'm pretty sure you're safe from anyone specifically tapping you on the shoulder and saying you must return. Those of us who're under 5 years out however are largely glaring at China and hoping no one gets too ornery for a while longer yet 🤣.
|
|
frostbite
VIP Member
Posts: 5,722
Likes: 7,121
Member is Online
|
Post by frostbite on Jun 5, 2023 17:37:06 GMT 10
Just don’t get vaxxed and you’re safe from recruitment. I’m exempt, medically unfit, refused entry because of my colour impairment.
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Jun 6, 2023 8:12:16 GMT 10
Didn't think of that, maybe I can claim my first nations background.......
Fully vaccinated with the blood of Jesus.
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Jun 6, 2023 10:13:34 GMT 10
Lmao, you'd be diversity hire and therefore higher on the list than anyone! And hate to break it to you frost but in war time being colourblind only gets you so far. You can enlist in multiple different trades with colour blindness these days. You can even get an exemption for extreme colour blindness. You just get shoe-horned into a job that's not reliant on your ability to recognise colour difference. Pretty sure you'd be safe from infantry, they kinda like you to be able to tell the difference between tracer rounds and armour piercing lmao
|
|
frostbite
VIP Member
Posts: 5,722
Likes: 7,121
Member is Online
|
Post by frostbite on Jun 6, 2023 10:26:15 GMT 10
Okay, I’ll go into supply then. I’ll be the dodgiest quey ever.
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Jun 6, 2023 11:05:05 GMT 10
Camouflage would be a good pigeonhole for u.
FEAR doesn’t have to stand for Forget Everything and Run.
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Jun 6, 2023 13:27:12 GMT 10
Things are not always as they seem.
|
|