bug
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Post by bug on Feb 25, 2022 15:06:11 GMT 10
Well said Milspec. The west hasn't had a battle with a peer enemy since Korea. NATO for sure could knock Russia out of Ukraine, but with massive casualties on both sides, effectively WWIII.
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Feb 25, 2022 15:08:16 GMT 10
Welcome back Milspec, genuinely nice to see you post again!!
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Post by milspec on Feb 25, 2022 15:19:11 GMT 10
I love the European own goals ... in their rush to shut down sovereign power generation and go green, they made themselves reliant on Russian energy, and now they can't turn off SWIFT to hurt Russia because Europe needs SWIFT to pay for Russian energy supplies even while the war is on.
I wonder if the woke media will report that green blunder for what it really is.
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Feb 25, 2022 16:20:42 GMT 10
Yeah like a totally dominated airspace facilitating company sized lifts at the drop of a hat to take out individuals found using state of the art intel, hard cash and equipment. Air support able to pretty much do whatever they want without sweet FA chance of being knocked out. top of the range equipment like comms, weapons, body armour and amazing medical support is not an advantage?an ambush is an ambush, look at the result of those. Read the ROE. I'll give you one example: joint US/ADF/ANA patrol ambushed on 3 sides, pinned down, taking casualties. Dutch Apache gunship overhead unable to engage because the ROE forbid the pilot to unless he was under direct fire. All that high tech air support is useless when a politician on the other side of the planet determines when you can use it. Even an armchair expert understands this concept. Mate those rules of engagement are for a high tech army specifically fighting goat herders to avoid unacceptable political outcomes. The US cannot engage with impunity in this circumstance. Taking casualties does not mean defeat it means you are in a fukking war!. When facing Russians they’d be free to use more discretion to avoid annihilation as the russians will bring equivalent or better high tech shit to the battlefield and it will be a much more even fight. even an armchair expert understands this concept.
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Post by Stealth on Feb 25, 2022 16:49:41 GMT 10
Correct, what most armchair pundits don't understand is that during recent wars that they have been exposed to the west has operated largely with impunity due to rapidly achieving air superiority ... easily done when the opposing force lacks an integrated Air Defence System. That is not the case with Russia, or China (or Iran). *cough* Or us... *cough* Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put us in the world of hurt that Ukraine is in at the moment. But my mind inevitably turns to our own region and the Russian butt-touchers we deal with in our own backyard. How likely is that Tomahawk acquisition will be delayed or even downgraded if America decides it needs to start throwing spears? And the knock on effects of that for us could be disastrous. There's lots of timelines that need to be acted on before our own interests are even likely to be viewed as moderately protected.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Feb 26, 2022 6:50:09 GMT 10
Read the ROE. I'll give you one example: joint US/ADF/ANA patrol ambushed on 3 sides, pinned down, taking casualties. Dutch Apache gunship overhead unable to engage because the ROE forbid the pilot to unless he was under direct fire. All that high tech air support is useless when a politician on the other side of the planet determines when you can use it. Even an armchair expert understands this concept. Mate those rules of engagement are for a high tech army specifically fighting goat herders to avoid unacceptable political outcomes. The US cannot engage with impunity in this circumstance. Taking casualties does not mean defeat it means you are in a fukking war!. When facing Russians they’d be free to use more discretion to avoid annihilation as the russians will bring equivalent or better high tech shit to the battlefield and it will be a much more even fight. even an armchair expert understands this concept. Yep, I can imagine a Russian ATGM team set up on the top floor of a 30 storey apartment building still inhabited by US civilians, and the yank JTAC getting clearance to call in an airstrike to level the building. Because taking casualties means you are in a fukking war. ROE aren't just for goat herders.
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bug
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Post by bug on Feb 26, 2022 9:16:06 GMT 10
I love the European own goals ... in their rush to shut down sovereign power generation and go green, they made themselves reliant on Russian energy, and now they can't turn off SWIFT to hurt Russia because Europe needs SWIFT to pay for Russian energy supplies even while the war is on. I wonder if the woke media will report that green blunder for what it really is. Be careful not to mix the two issues there. Shutting down their own power generation (particularly Germany's nuclear generators) is silly. Not all european nations are doing this though. Notably the UK is expanding its nuclear energy program. Shutting down reactors isn't "green" at all, as it practically guarrantees that coal and gas will have their lifeline extended further. Going 'green' means severing any reliance on Russian fossil fuels. The current crisis may serve to accelerate that program. Even in densely populated europe, renewables are still being added at record rates, largely due to their economic advantage.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Feb 27, 2022 7:36:13 GMT 10
It is becoming a type of proxy war, British and German hand held anit-tank and aircraft weapons now streaming over the border with great effect. Russia now having to move more weapons in and delay final attack on capital cities. #Ukrainian soldier celebrating his kill on a #Russian tank, using a British donated NLAW. www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-says-it-derailed-russian-attack-plan-kiev-offensive-resumesUpdate (12:35 ET): There are breaking reports that in the mid-evening hours Kiev time, Russia's military has received orders to “advance in all sectors,” according to a fresh statement by Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov. - GERMANY WORKING ON WAY TO EXCLUDE RUSSIA FROM SWIFT
- ADVISER TO UKRAINE'S INTERIOR MINISTER SAYS RUSSIAN TROOPS ARE APPROACHING ZAPORIZHZHIYA NUCLEAR POWER PLANT
- UKRAINE'S ZELENSKIY SAYS AZERBAIJAN AND TURKEY PRESIDENTS PROPSED TO ORGANISE TALKS WITH RUSSIA
- GERMANY TO SEND UKRAINE STINGER MISSILES, ANTI-TANK WEAPONS
Western correspondents on the ground have also observed the additional mustering of tank and armored units now continuing to pour across the border into Ukraine. So far a major aerial and ground assault on Kiev appears to have been paused as there was some level of back-and-forth and confusion over possible ceasefire or "surrender" negotiations. Finally, Bloomberg reports that Germany has "upended years of policy" and agreed to supply weapons to Kyiv and "look into ways" to shut out Russia from the SWIFT financial messaging system, which however is still a long way away from agreeing to expel Russia. The German government said in a statement Saturday that it has agreed to the supply of 400 German-made rocket propelled grenades to Ukraine via the Netherlands, along with 14 armored personnel carriers, as well as 1000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger missiles. It will also supply 10,000 tonnes of fuel via Poland. Further supplies to Ukraine are currently being considered, it said.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Feb 27, 2022 7:42:05 GMT 10
I love the European own goals ... in their rush to shut down sovereign power generation and go green, they made themselves reliant on Russian energy, and now they can't turn off SWIFT to hurt Russia because Europe needs SWIFT to pay for Russian energy supplies even while the war is on. I wonder if the woke media will report that green blunder for what it really is. limited SWIFT and direct actioner against Russia's larges bank now in play.. The world is now in shock over full out invasion and destruction of Ukraine. Welcome to WW!!! Swift payments crackdown on Russia edges closerwww.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60540903Moves to shut Russia out of the main global bank payments system have gained ground after Germany's government softened its stance. Countries including the UK have lobbied for Russia to be blocked from the Swift system, which makes it possible to move money across frontiers. Now Germany, which opposed the move, has said it favours "targeted and functional" restrictions. The economy and foreign ministers said they wanted to hit "the right people". The change of heart opens the way to further economic sanctions against Russia in the wake of its invasion of Ukraine. In "Devastating" Move, US Weighs Sanctions On Russia's Central Bank As Germany Backs "Targeted" Removal Of Russia From SWIFTwww.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/devastating-move-us-weighs-sanctions-russias-central-bank-germany-backs-targeted
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Feb 27, 2022 8:19:41 GMT 10
Putin is holding back, he is showing a lot of restraint right now! If he wants to steamroller the place he can do it easily. Don't believe all the bullshit you're hearing on MSM half of it hugely inaccurate and or invented to suit their narrative.
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Post by Stealth on Feb 27, 2022 9:07:36 GMT 10
Putin is holding back, he is showing a lot of restraint right now! If he wants to steamroller the place he can do it easily. Don't believe all the bullshit you're hearing on MSM half of it hugely inaccurate and or invented to suit their narrative. I hate to be brutally honest, but most non-MSM is absolutely swarming with incorrect or outright fabricated narrative right now. Russian bots are propagating fake news faster than you can identify that it's fake. Some are really bad and clearly fake, some are really really advanced. You're right that MSM is full of it right now. But do NOT assume that any fringe reporting source is correct or not pushing a narrative. If it's real enough for them to believe it they'll report it as true. That doesn't mean they're intentionally trying to lie to you. It just means that at the moment pretty much no one can tell which way is up and which videos are from today or from ages ago. Social media streams are a better place to start. There's so many of them right now it can be hard to tell what's real and what's not. Someone posting a photo or video could be posting something that's old without knowing that fact. But live streams on Twitch, Youtube or Facebook streams, heck even city skyline streams, can be a better source of information because at least you know there's a better chance that it's actually happening live. Right now. That device is in someone's hands. Obviously be picky and don't assume it's true because there's ways to fake streams as well. But things that are posted as factual at the moment are as likely to be false as not. TL;DR, don't believe everything you see, even if it's from one of your normally trusted news sources. ESPECIALLY if it's just an opinion piece rather than a facts-based information piece.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Feb 27, 2022 9:24:16 GMT 10
Putin is holding back, he is showing a lot of restraint right now! If he wants to steamroller the place he can do it easily. Don't believe all the bullshit you're hearing on MSM half of it hugely inaccurate and or invented to suit their narrative. I hate to be brutally honest, but most non-MSM is absolutely swarming with incorrect or outright fabricated narrative right now. Russian bots are propagating fake news faster than you can identify that it's fake. Some are really bad and clearly fake, some are really really advanced. You're right that MSM is full of it right now. But do NOT assume that any fringe reporting source is correct or not pushing a narrative. If it's real enough for them to believe it they'll report it as true. That doesn't mean they're intentionally trying to lie to you. It just means that at the moment pretty much no one can tell which way is up and which videos are from today or from ages ago. Social media streams are a better place to start. There's so many of them right now it can be hard to tell what's real and what's not. Someone posting a photo or video could be posting something that's old without knowing that fact. But live streams on Twitch, Youtube or Facebook streams, heck even city skyline streams, can be a better source of information because at least you know there's a better chance that it's actually happening live. Right now. That device is in someone's hands. Obviously be picky and don't assume it's true because there's ways to fake streams as well. But things that are posted as factual at the moment are as likely to be false as not. TL;DR, don't believe everything you see, even if it's from one of your normally trusted news sources. ESPECIALLY if it's just an opinion piece rather than a facts-based information piece. Absolutely! I'm not disagreeing with any of that, most Social Media is no better or frequently even worse!
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Post by Stealth on Feb 27, 2022 10:36:55 GMT 10
Musk has gotten a starlink network up and running in Ukraine to help combat their lack of connectivity. What does that mean for us? I suspect another increase in cyber attacks against the US in retaliation. That could lead to bleed over for us in some online services. A lot of Australian corporations use US based cloud services to run their online business and system profiles so I wouldn't be surprised to see an uptick in service outages.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Feb 27, 2022 12:25:18 GMT 10
Putin is holding back, he is showing a lot of restraint right now! If he wants to steamroller the place he can do it easily. Don't believe all the bullshit you're hearing on MSM half of it hugely inaccurate and or invented to suit their narrative. Completely disagree, in war the faster you advance the better. Putin had a 24h program to take the capital but failed, now sits with problems. The Germans, Dutch British, and US now taking in antiaircraft stinger missiles and anti-tank. The longer it goes on the more difficult for the Russians to make headway. The French just captured a Russian cargo ship in the English channel. I would be very surprised if British special forces were not operating in Ukraine. French police seize Russian cargo ship in English Channelwww.cityam.com/french-police-seize-russian-cargo-ship-in-english-channel/The local defence is been hardened in the cities. Plenty of vids of Ukrainian's making Molotov Cocktails. Every day delay is more prob for the Russians.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Feb 27, 2022 13:17:05 GMT 10
On short wave, Listen to WTWW 5.085 weekdays beginning at 5:30 pm. Mon - Fri 5:30 - 6 pm Central BBC World News America is a current affairs news program produced by BBC World News to be shown initially for American... Mon - Fri 6pm - 6:30pm PBS News Hour continues to provide in-depth analysis of current events with a news summary, live interviews and discussions of domestic and international issues.
Never ask a barber if you need a haircut, or a salesman if its a good price.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Feb 27, 2022 14:01:39 GMT 10
Putin is holding back, he is showing a lot of restraint right now! If he wants to steamroller the place he can do it easily. Don't believe all the bullshit you're hearing on MSM half of it hugely inaccurate and or invented to suit their narrative. Completely disagree, in war the faster you advance the better. Putin had a 24h program to take the capital but failed, now sits with problems. The Germans, Dutch British, and US now taking in antiaircraft stinger missiles and anti-tank. The longer it goes on the more difficult for the Russians to make headway. Yes in conventional war they would. But if Putin thinks it's not going to go his way he'll just pour more in, he'll escalate and there is only going to be one outcome here and that will be Russia smashing the place in to submission. I'm happy to be wrong about this nobody wants to see mass civilian casualties and death here and if they do then they are not human! Bottom line is for someone like Putin failure is not an option, he will soon send more infantry, more airpower, armor and artillery.
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Post by Stealth on Feb 27, 2022 14:19:58 GMT 10
He can't afford to. He'd be mad to put the bulk of his force in Ukraine. I don't disagree with your comment that he'll escalate, just his method. The next step would be to keep his remaining forces in his own country and use weapons with more devastating effects (ie. nukes). Boots on ground isn't working, and NATO nations are pumping more gear into the Ukrainian supply line.
Logistics have already failed for the Russians. His troops are running out of fuel, and they have no way to get further without more (at this stage). Supply lines have been severely hampered by the Ukrainian military blowing up rail lines and you can't just truck supplies in for a forward attack. It just doesn't work.
Putin's a sociopathic monster, but he's an intelligent one. My money is that if he refuses to back down, he'll keep the rest of his troops in country and try to step up in another way. Any more troops out of his own country weakens his own borders and he won't risk that. He'll start lobbing bigger and bigger weapons from a distance, and trying to get allies to continue sending support. I don't think he'll put any more of his own troops at risk but I don't think he'll have to.
The spoiler to all of this is China. If they decide to get involved in a more tangible way than economic and diplomatic compliance and assistance it could all go to custard. But I still agree with the theory that they won't do so unless they're given 'permission' by a NATO country putting boots on ground rather than just supplying kit. I think NATO are very aware of that dynamic and will probably do everything possible to avoid any NATO fingers on triggers. Give them the gear, but don't be the ones to put rounds downrange.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Feb 27, 2022 15:17:36 GMT 10
He can't afford to. He'd be mad to put the bulk of his force in Ukraine. I don't disagree with your comment that he'll escalate, just his method. The next step would be to keep his remaining forces in his own country and use weapons with more devastating effects (ie. nukes). Boots on ground isn't working, and NATO nations are pumping more gear into the Ukrainian supply line. Logistics have already failed for the Russians. His troops are running out of fuel, and they have no way to get further without more (at this stage). Supply lines have been severely hampered by the Ukrainian military blowing up rail lines and you can't just truck supplies in for a forward attack. It just doesn't work. Putin's a sociopathic monster, but he's an intelligent one. My money is that if he refuses to back down, he'll keep the rest of his troops in country and try to step up in another way. Any more troops out of his own country weakens his own borders and he won't risk that. He'll start lobbing bigger and bigger weapons from a distance, and trying to get allies to continue sending support. I don't think he'll put any more of his own troops at risk but I don't think he'll have to. The spoiler to all of this is China. If they decide to get involved in a more tangible way than economic and diplomatic compliance and assistance it could all go to custard. But I still agree with the theory that they won't do so unless they're given 'permission' by a NATO country putting boots on ground rather than just supplying kit. I think NATO are very aware of that dynamic and will probably do everything possible to avoid any NATO fingers on triggers. Give them the gear, but don't be the ones to put rounds downrange. Yip, all intelligent leads to Putin way underestimating the time and supply line issues. It has gone to hell, He did not want to see a very messy battle in Ukraine involving non military. Putin also underestimated the Ukrainian people thought they would be more sympathetic to Russia.
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bug
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Post by bug on Feb 27, 2022 17:52:37 GMT 10
Very reminiscent of Soviet tanks in Budapest, only this time they can't hide amongst the communist bloc. If the Ukranians turn this into a guerrilla war, the Russians will be in for a lot of trouble. It's very hard to fight a guerilla foe who looks like you, uses the same weapons and many of whom speak the same language. Russian speaking Ukranians are not the pro-Putin bunch that Putin thinks they are.
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Feb 27, 2022 18:33:59 GMT 10
Seen a lot of videos coming out claiming to show destroyed ruski gear and equipment and a lot of them are not and are in fact Ukrainian sure Russia is losing men and equipment and this partly explains why you see so much old equipment green troops going in first soaking up the hits while the nice shiny toys sit on the sidelines back in Russia waiting to see what NATO does.
The fact that so many nations both members and non members of NATO agreeing to start supplying weapons and equipment Ukraine does clearly indicate regardless what the PR machines and the experts tells us its not going well for Ukraine but hey what do i know im just a guy on the other side of the world
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