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Post by Stealth on Feb 21, 2023 20:03:16 GMT 10
Apparently you lose about 50% of the nutrition in dehydrated foods and while that's fantastic if you've got a productive garden that suits most of your needs I had to assume that we weren't going to have that for a while. I knew that sun-dried stuff got knocked around nutritionally, but I didn't know that de-humidifiers were that harsh on foods. Anyone else have data on this? You know I had a bit of a search around and couldn't find any definitive scientific evidence for 'foods will loose xx% of their nutritional value'. A lot of different websites say up to 50% but thinking about it, I reckon that's going to vary wildly depending on the food you dehydrate. So good catch, I hadn't had reason to question it until you pointed that out! There's every chance that you'd lose a lot less of the nutritional value depending on what you're drying as well, some foods probably loose less or more than others. There's a few prepping channels I watch on youtube which say that they FD, dehydrate, AND can their foods so that they have a variety of stuff and I reckon that's probably the best option. When it came to having various options for us though we really had to go with the lowest amount of storage space taken up for the highest nutritional bang for buck so the FDer was definitely the best option. But I think that dehydrating is absolutely a great solution if you don't have the flex on funds to get a FDer. I'd probably go with canning last personally because anything wet seems to last a lot less often in warmer climates. But in reality obviously you stock what you can get! Canned food is way better than no food, that's for sure.
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Feb 21, 2023 20:35:40 GMT 10
A long time ago I was involved in a dehydrator project that used a heat sink panel to track the sun and residual heat was pulled off the sink and the heated air was blown over the dried food. Different algorithms were used for different food types and the temperature was closely monitored (to stop caramelisation of the sugars) as was the humidity (add more airflow to speed up the drying process). The selling points were free energy to dry the fruit/vegetable, and no UV radiation to destroy the nutrients of the food.
I'm sure that a dehydrator would damage some nutrients but my understanding was no where near what sun drying did. That fact wasn't part of my brief, that's just what I was told and never did any lab experiments to confirm or deny it. I'm sure someone has done the studies.
And I would also assume that the method you have chosen would be the best...but again, don't know for sure.
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Post by Stealth on Mar 10, 2023 17:21:24 GMT 10
I went to the local markets and bought up a bunch of cheap veggies yesterday. 2kg of white onions, 1kg of red onions, two large bunches of celery, three cauliflower heads, 500g of brown mushrooms, two 500g bags of garlic heads, four large capsicums and 3kg of pink lady apples. I spent the whole afternoon processing it down with my food chopper and processor and they're now all ready to go into the FDer at intervals. The whole lot cost me about $30! That's all down to shopping from a farming outlet. Sure, you do need to sift through the produce to find the good stuff. It takes only a few minutes to do and for $5 for three heads of cauli when a frozen 500g bag is $5? I'll take it and break it down for the freezer myself, thanks!
It should keep the machine busy for a solid couple of weeks at least. If not a little more. I'm planning to make up a batch of spanish rice for burritos to go with the pulled pork that I've already FDd, and porridge and french toast for breakfasts and then once I get a bit more protein to FD which will most likely be beef mince, I'll have enough food stored up in our FD crate for a full week of meals for our entire family.
I know that doesn't sound like a lot but given that I've only had two months of active time with the FDer and several bag failures that resulted in some previously FD'd stuff needing to be used straight away, I'm pretty happy with where we're at. We only have a small amount of produce left from my in-laws to process so I'll add that to the mix of things to get done, but after that it's all long term storage stuff for a while.
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Mar 13, 2023 5:24:14 GMT 10
Ran across this by accident and hope there is info in it of use to someone...
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Post by Stealth on Mar 16, 2023 10:15:29 GMT 10
Thanks for that Tim! I've avoided blueberries in the past purely because they're such a pain to process so that they don't explode into a bubbly mess. I might have to invest in one of those rollers. Probably be great for legumes etc. with a harder outer coating that makes them take longer to dry and rehydrate too.
Recent work; I realised that our protein options for stored food really was quite low. I had about 500g of dried mince and about the same of pulled pork, and that was it. The amounts we had would keep us going for a week but that's it.
So I bought 2kg of mince yesterday, one beef and one pork. Both have been fried up, drained, and rinsed of fat. It's so sad to see the flavour go down the drain but worth it for the longevity. I'll be rehydrating mince with beef or chicken stock when using it so that'll give some of the flavour back but ultimately you have to choose between lifespan and over all taste reduction. It'll still taste great when adding it to other things but would be a bit bland on its own. As we plan to put things into whole meals it shouldn't be a problem.
I also found a recipe for chicken pot pie mix. I'm going to make up a batch of that and put in some orecchiette pasta to give it some heft. That will be my first attempt at an MRE style meal. So far everything I've FD'd has been single ingredients so that we could combine them in different ways and we're not restricted to individual meals that can get boring over time. But having a few pre-made meals that only require water added will not only give us some quick and easy options but also will allow us to have a few meals made up in our go-bags that won't go bad quickly the way protein bars and the like will.
Two other plans for the near future are spanish rice to go in pulled pork burritos. That will go into the LTS crate along with the pulled pork but will likely be souvenired for camping trips as well.
And finally I'm going to FD a few blocks of firm tofu. You can buy FDd instant miso that has small cubes of FDd tofu in them and not only is it delicious, its a fun addition to clear/broth soups. So long as the chunks aren't too large they absorb the broth quickly and I really enjoy it for the texture addition. So I'm going to have a crack at drying some tofu because not only is a relatively cheap protein option, it has a lot of minerals that are really good for you and can make whatever veggie meal you're eating have a bit more texture. On that note I might even do a tray of tofu crumble. It turns into almost a mince-like texture and hubby makes an absolutely bangin' tofu sriracha meatball sub sandwich with that.
So many plans! Just keep freezing, just keep freezing... 🤣
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Post by Stealth on Mar 17, 2023 20:32:48 GMT 10
Quick update. The chicken pasta worked perfectly. Rehydrates just fine and is also almost like a crunchy cracker snack if you eat a piece! You'd absolutely have to drink a lot of water if you ate it that way but it tastes great either way. I'm super happy with them because I now have about 13 MRE meals in our long term storage that will be useful either for individual meals while we're camping, get home bags, or just a quick and convenient meal when we're pushed for time or if the whole house is sick and we don't have the oomph to cook a full meal. The best thing about these bags are that they're heat rated, which means we can open them up, pour some boiling water in, seal it closed and wait ten minutes or so and we'll have hot meals ready to go. I bought a bunch of trays that fit into the machine that allow me to do single serving portions. That's handy for MRE sized meals but also to do small batches of individual produce. For example, I didn't have quite enough to do all of the trays with the chicken pasta so I broke out a bag of sliced frozen mushrooms that I'd already processed to FD. That one tray was the right size for adding to on meal so instead of opening a whole large bag and having to use it pretty quickly or rebatch it into vacuum sealed jars, I can just use that small amount and move on. I won't do that often. But it's handy! I'm putting the mince in to start tonight but I've realised that I have a small dilemma in that I don't have a lot of space to store all of these bags! They take up far less space in our pantry than our original solution of jars and cans and they're definitely lighter for sure. But being able to reserve so much food means we're going to have to start looking into more storage options in cool conditions. At the moment we have a crate in our dining area and that's not really sustainable. The only place I can think of that MIGHT work in the shorter term is under our bed but that's extremely difficult to access because of the heavy mattress. I'm a bit hesitant to use that space for anything that we might want to access quickly in an emergency but the garage is simply far too hot to store LTS food in. Hmmm. It's a dilemma. We'll probably get away with garage storage in the cooler months but when it's hot it's definitely not the optimal choice.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Mar 18, 2023 7:29:52 GMT 10
An insulated shipping container is reasonably cheap. The refrigeration plant doesn't need to be operational. There were some older types that were connected to ships refrigeration plant that didn't have and plant installed at all, the ship supplied the cooling through a brine system. This is the type to get as you don't lose any space with the machinery at the front.
Outfit with some shelving and you have storage for years of food.
A tropical roof added above it will give more sun protection, especially up here as summers are hot, and a roof to collect some water into an IBC container placed besides it.
Id like to apologize to anyone I haven't offended yet, I will get to you shortly !
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Post by Stealth on Mar 18, 2023 16:37:20 GMT 10
I think my family might have something to say if I tried to fill out ENTIRE backyard with a shipping container 🤣. We might have three times the space that we had in our rental property but we don't have THAT much space!
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Mar 18, 2023 16:49:01 GMT 10
No issues here on 105 acres.
“Fear, panic, grief, a sense of pervasive loss, and the shattering of meaning and purpose would make an adaptive response difficult, perhaps impossible …
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Mar 18, 2023 18:51:50 GMT 10
Should try selling stuff Stealth...get that machine paying for itself.
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Post by Stealth on Mar 18, 2023 18:55:17 GMT 10
No issues here on 105 acres. So you're offering me some of your acerage for free? Cause that's what I'm going to read into that... lmao.
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Post by Stealth on Mar 18, 2023 18:59:30 GMT 10
Should try selling stuff Stealth...get that machine paying for itself. I'm actually considering it. We have a monthly farmer's market not too far away from us and there's regular stalls that have things like toffee apples, icecream, desserts and the like. I suspect I could sell freeze dried lollies there very easily and at a sizable profit purely because of the novelty of the items. I might start pricing it up and see what I'd have to sell at to make a tidy profit. Lollies work well because they have a very short run time cycle (about 2-3 hours) compared to other things like freeze dried icecream that can take a couple of days depending on a few variables. But lollies are a quick turnover item so it might go well. I think I'll start researching requirements for selling there. The only problem that I can foresee is the requirement for portable eftpos because people automatically assume that you'll have it. If it's an expensive outlay it might not be worth it to do. Then again I've seen homeless people with eftpos tap and pay chips when folks say they don't have cash so who knows *chortle*.
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Mar 18, 2023 20:11:01 GMT 10
I'm actually considering it. We have a monthly farmer's market not too far away from us and there's regular stalls that have things like toffee apples, icecream, desserts and the like. I suspect I could sell freeze dried lollies there very easily and at a sizable profit purely because of the novelty of the items. I might start pricing it up and see what I'd have to sell at to make a tidy profit. Lollies work well because they have a very short run time cycle (about 2-3 hours) compared to other things like freeze dried icecream that can take a couple of days depending on a few variables. But lollies are a quick turnover item so it might go well. I think I'll start researching requirements for selling there. The only problem that I can foresee is the requirement for portable eftpos because people automatically assume that you'll have it. If it's an expensive outlay it might not be worth it to do. Then again I've seen homeless people with eftpos tap and pay chips when folks say they don't have cash so who knows *chortle*. I was sitting at an outside cafe a few years ago with another engineer guy talking about a project and this daggy looking bloke butt in and asked if we wanted to donate to something and we said sorry we dont have cash and he pulled out a handheld efpos/tap machine! We were so impressed we gave him $20 each - suckers!
I think you can get transfer things on mobile phones now cant you? Not sure...the tech is there for sure.
Wonder how licorice would go freeze dried? Rehydrating might be a bit gross. I assume that foods with low water content would be the best/most efficient for the process?
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Post by Stealth on Mar 18, 2023 21:40:00 GMT 10
Already tried liquorice, it didn't work! A few gummy type things that I've tried didn't work. I know that they DO work though because I've seen others do it. I suspect that the trick they're using is to pre-heat the lollies in the oven to almost melting point before putting them into the machine so I might give that a go at some point.
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Mar 19, 2023 8:03:13 GMT 10
I have followed the “loss of nutrition” part of this thread with interest and I have been trying to find an authoritative guide to this area. Has anyone found some reliable references.
The online discussion confuses me. So you dehydrate a piece of apple and it reduces it nutritional value by 50% - but where does it go? The pro-rata amounts of protein, carbs, fats and micronutrients stays exactly the same. You have simple reduced water content. You have not structurally broken down the protein, carbs etc so the nutritional content should be the same. Heating, cold, vacuum can damage the micro-structure and this could reduce the nutrient value. But I cannot get to values like 50% it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Mar 19, 2023 12:27:29 GMT 10
Sorry, the land here is for family survival only, but, if you just turn up here, u better have at least 6 months supplies, be totally self sufficient in power etc (water we can supply), and be ready to work in the gardens.
When one tugs at a single thing in nature, one finds it is attached to the rest of the world.
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Post by Stealth on Mar 19, 2023 21:24:11 GMT 10
I have followed the “loss of nutrition” part of this thread with interest and I have been trying to find an authoritative guide to this area. Has anyone found some reliable references. The online discussion confuses me. So you dehydrate a piece of apple and it reduces it nutritional value by 50% - but where does it go? The pro-rata amounts of protein, carbs, fats and micronutrients stays exactly the same. You have simple reduced water content. You have not structurally broken down the protein, carbs etc so the nutritional content should be the same. Heating, cold, vacuum can damage the micro-structure and this could reduce the nutrient value. But I cannot get to values like 50% it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I've been trying to find more information on that as well, and you're right. It's very confusing. The main point that I've been looking at is that the macros aren't really the concern, it's the heat and oxygen sensitive micros that degrade during other methods of preservation that's the problem. For example Vitamin C, thiamine (B1) and pantothenic acid are all sensitive or very sensitive to heat. Probiotics have a similar problem with oxygen exposure. So methods of preservation like dehydrating and canning would likely either significantly decrease or even entirely eliminate those micros from the food, thereby reducing their nutritional value. A similar thing is true for B2 (riboflavin), B6, B12 and folic acid when it comes to light or sunlight exposure, so using the sun to dehydrate foods can have a deleterious effect on micros in those foods as well. So it's not a reduction in a caloric sense. But we all know how vital micros are to be able to not only survive but thrive. But that's only a small handful of references that I've found so far that vaguely answer the question of 'is FDing actually better nutritionally than other methods'. I suspect there's several foods where the method still destroys some amount of the essential micros, purely because we can't flash freeze to an appropriate temperature to avoid degradation from occurring at all. I'm certain there's more sources out there that have done direct studies on it. Someone's military SURELY has done that by now (perhaps the US) but I haven't yet found it. Admittedly I haven't looked all that hard yet but I'll get around to it!
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Post by Stealth on Mar 30, 2023 17:24:24 GMT 10
I hit a milestone this week. Our crate of FD'd food is now full, and we need to buy a new crate to start filling! The crate is actually even more full than in this picture, it's at the brim at this point and I can't even squeeze a single bag into the top. Also my outlaws brought an extremely generous gift this morning as well. They know a grower whose tomato crop is literally sitting on the vines wasting away because the cost to hire people to come and collect the fruit is too high. It's not worth it for them, so instead they've been letting people take whatever they want. Anything that's not taken by friends or family etc. is being left so that the cows can come in and eat it. While I'm sorry to hear that someone is so disadvantaged it was a lucky win for us because my outlaws brought us several buckets of beautifully vine-ripened tomatoes for free! Well of course our minds instantly went to sauces and the like. But I'm also going to FD a heap of them and turn them into tomato powder to reconstitute as a passata or tomato paste depending on what we want to use it for. All I have to do is cut them up and gut out the seeds. So we're taking advantage of a situation that would be happening regardless, but it still doesn't feel great to hear that someone's livelihood is taking such a massive hit. I did a clean of my machine on the weekend and I now have 3L of low fat milk FDing. Apparently it tastes just like fresh milk on reconstitution (unlike powdered milk that you can buy in bags etc) and given that my machine has had a full deep clean I thought now was a good time to try a product that can absorb smells readily if it's not sparkling clean. Milk is definitely something that you really miss when it's gone and can be difficult to source in times of need so I figure if it works well it's definitely something I can and will stockpile. I plan to do a few batches if it works out ok, but I definitely will have to do a clean between processes because after the tomatoes I'll be doing a big batch of garlic! The onion that we did made the garage smell of fresh onions for a few days so I can only imagine what garlic would do to FD'd milk 🤣. The garlic is fairly large diced because the chopper I used doesn't get any smaller, but it really doesn't make that big of a difference so I'm happy with it as is. And finally, I did a bunch of FD'd maple and cinnamon porridge for ready meals. I've seen in a few FB groups that people don't really get the point of FD'ing porridge because oats store very well if bagged properly and can last for years. Initially I thought FDing porridge was a bit of a waste of time too! But then I realised that when it comes to cooking, all I'll have to do is pour in a cup of boiling water and set it aside for a few minutes to rehydrate. If it was raw oats it would take several minutes of active boiling in a pot that would make dishes to be cleaned, and would have to be monitored while it cooks. This way I can just throw a couple of bags into a pack and they're good to go the second you've brought some water to boil. On top of that if you simply can't boil water you can still pour could water in and eat it. It won't be anywhere near as nice, but it'd be way better than uncooked oats. So that's my most recent update. I need to make more instant meals because they're handy. I need to get a new crate to fill. I need to do more proteins. But probably top on my list is figuring out what to put in a full day MRE meal pack that's nutritious and balanced. Mostly so that I can put something together that I can throw into bags and not even consider whether or not it's 'enough'.
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Post by Stealth on Apr 5, 2023 11:45:33 GMT 10
Today's quick update. The tomatoes that we processed over the weekend are frozen for processing in the deep freeze, or in the machine processing now. The freezer is a great way to preserve your produce prior to FDing in trays and ready to put in the machine while the last batch is running. We have a total of about 8kg of tomatoes in varying states of storage preparation. The picture below is one of the smallest mylar bags that I have, and it has TWO KILOS of tomatoes in it! It's in powder form because I blended it into a fine powder before packing it. But that small bag has enough cooked tomato powder in it to make four 500g jars of pasta sauce, or at a reduced hydration rate we can make countless serves of tomato paste or pizza sauce. We still have to add other flavours to it like basil, garlic, and onion, but having the base ingredient ready to go means that we have to use less resources for a better outcome at a time when those resources might be reduced or restricted. It has some salt in it for flavour but that's it. This is one of the biggest reasons we got a freeze dryer. The capacity to store large amounts of fresh produce in the best quality that we can achieve was something that, despite the outlay for the machine and the continuing processing costs (bags, oxygen absorbers, oil, electricity costs etc), the knowledge that we have produce that is equivalent to fresh on hand at all times is invaluable. We're absolutely fortunate that we were able to free up funds to buy the machine and the comfort level with technology to use it and maintain it. It's something that I'm acutely aware that not everyone can do. That's why we use our resources to help out others like family and friends who don't have that flexibility in their funds or knowledge to build a stronger community that's more resilient. It's a fairly small impact compared to some others but it makes me glad that we can at least contribute to the comfort and needs of those closest to us. I also made up a carrot powder blend for my sister in law's baby a few weeks back for her to try. A few tablespoons of water and there's a single ingredient vegetable for her to mix up with warm or cold water for a quick meal as he's just starting to wean onto solid foods. Apparently he absolutely loved it, so I have two more batches of sliced carrots to FD and break down for him. It's given me another project. Start creating some powder produce for those who are having trouble eating solid foods like babies, someone that's sick, or unable to chew or digest solids. We can break down bagged produce very easily to a mostly smooth paste or drinkable product, but if we have bags that are already powdered and ready to go it's far more convenient when you're in a rush don't have access to something to hygienically process the powder in.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Apr 5, 2023 13:08:41 GMT 10
Stealth
Where can I source those pouches please?
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