|
|
Post by Joey on Mar 20, 2021 10:54:10 GMT 10
If conscription ever became a thing, the military wouldn't be the only option. The less savoury or medically unfit types on the regular dole (not disability) could be used for highway cleanup gangs, council tree-planting groups, age care homes, hospital laundries, etc.
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,973 
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Mar 20, 2021 11:43:04 GMT 10
Was a good thought though? Yea yr probably right about the influx of shits who dont know anything and are so dumbed down that they cant learn anyway.
All the parts falling off this car are of the finest American manufacture-bumper sticker.
|
|
bug
Senior Member
Posts: 2,318
Likes: 1,934
Member is Online
|
Post by bug on Mar 20, 2021 13:04:59 GMT 10
IMO, Forcing dole bludgers into service is the absolute WORST thing you could do during 'peace time'. Holy heck, the fall out would be shocking. Permanent forces who WANT to be there suddenly having to babysit an influx of dole bludgers who want nothing more than to not be there? You'd spend all of your time chasing admin action and charges for AWOL. No. Thanks. Give them the option to serve, sure. But tell them they have to? I can't imagine anything worse. The amount of people who'd come out better for it would pale in comparison to the less-than minimum wage earner who has no appreciable skills and has to be trained in how to walk in a straight line. Let alone becoming a skilled tradesman/woman. They don't want to be there, they never even considered serving, and their default setting to any kind of authority is "NAH YOU CAN'T MAKE ME DO NUFFIN, BRO". Unfortunately you can say 'force them to do it or put them in jail' but Holsworthy only holds so many miscreants. Unless you want to build a jail on every single base, you're going to find the impost far outweighs the gains before you can even blink. And then on top of it you're suddenly flooding your forces with people who are potential risks for bribery/honey traps/handing out information purely because they're pissed about being forced to be there, and you're basically handing information to the 'big bads' on a silver platter. Conscription during war time is different. There'd be a huge amount of people don't want to be there, but they don't have enough time to piss around. They'd be stuffed into uniforms and thrown out onto the dirt before they even really know what's happening. Bit hard to go to the strippers and assault civie patrons when you're on a tinny/bugsmasher heading over to the front. Now if war were to break out tomorrow, my opinion would probably be very different because again. It's real hard to be breaking laws and smashing jaws on your own patch if you're slogging through a swamp somewhere waiting to be lit up. But in peace time? Nah, I can't see that working out well. Accurate. What you tend to find in countries with national service, is that a lot of effort is put in by people trying to avoid doing it. Dual citizenship is a massive problem. During the Vietnam war, many just left Australia. China does not allow dual citizenship, so they can conscript as many as they want. I liked Tony Abbott's work for the dole scheme. It could have been very effective if allowed to be. |
|
fei
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Likes: 876
|
Post by fei on Mar 20, 2021 15:53:24 GMT 10
Singapore has an effective national service scheme. All males do two years in the army / police / civil defence forces starting between 18 and 20 years of age, then yearly training as reserves up to age 40 for other ranks and 50 for officers. My former boss was an officer, but left Singapore in his mid-twenties, did plenty of boozing and partying for years. He got quite a shock when he returned a couple of years ago in his early forties and had to get into shape again asap.
It was only recently that I realised sons of expat permanent residents also have to do national service if remaining in Singapore. I reckon there would have to be quite a few Aussie and pommy expats who would have served.
|
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Mar 20, 2021 16:29:58 GMT 10
If conscription ever became a thing, the military wouldn't be the only option. The less savoury or medically unfit types on the regular dole (not disability) could be used for highway cleanup gangs, council tree-planting groups, age care homes, hospital laundries, etc. Now THIS is something I can get behind. I think that's actually something that happened earlier, I know it did in the UK although unsure about Aus. Ultimately you'd need an element of folks to wrangle them but then those who are medically unfit or want to serve but can't for whatever reason could still contribute. Still gives the bludgers the chance to better themselves, gives those who're on the dole through no fault of their own (there are a decent chunk who're on it that would prefer not to be) the opportunity to build up skills and experience that they might otherwise not get exposed to, and free up those who have capacity and ability to serve from roles that don't require specialised training or aren't using their skills effectively. But the point seems moot regardless. How long do social service items like the dole last during war time? From my watching of history docos, basic rations etc. were the norm but if you wanted anything more than basic rations (which as far as I can tell were almost never enough) you had to work your butt off because it wasn't going to be handed to you. Dunno how long your average legitimate bludger (aka. not someone who's genuinely just had a bad time and is down on their luck) would last with their hand out. |
|
Beno
Senior Member
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 1,433
Location: Northern Rivers
|
Post by Beno on Mar 20, 2021 17:45:12 GMT 10
If conscription ever became a thing, the military wouldn't be the only option. The less savoury or medically unfit types on the regular dole (not disability) could be used for highway cleanup gangs, council tree-planting groups, age care homes, hospital laundries, etc. Now THIS is something I can get behind. I think that's actually something that happened earlier, I know it did in the UK although unsure about Aus. Ultimately you'd need an element of folks to wrangle them but then those who are medically unfit or want to serve but can't for whatever reason could still contribute. Still gives the bludgers the chance to better themselves, gives those who're on the dole through no fault of their own (there are a decent chunk who're on it that would prefer not to be) the opportunity to build up skills and experience that they might otherwise not get exposed to, and free up those who have capacity and ability to serve from roles that don't require specialised training or aren't using their skills effectively. But the point seems moot regardless. How long do social service items like the dole last during war time? From my watching of history docos, basic rations etc. were the norm but if you wanted anything more than basic rations (which as far as I can tell were almost never enough) you had to work your butt off because it wasn't going to be handed to you. Dunno how long your average legitimate bludger (aka. not someone who's genuinely just had a bad time and is down on their luck) would last with their hand out. It sounds good in theory and could work in limited circumstances but what happens to those willing to work and be paid as tree planters, aged care, laundry etc when a wave of subsidised (dole) free workers come along? What happens to the laundry company who struggles to compete? I still like the idea but i think there are other options like breaking rocks by hand at a quarry to save on diesel (yeah i hear the disbelief lol) or boosting the meals on wheels or serving with significance other volunteer organisations. i got a soft spot for laundry cause my father in law had a full time job and then used to work in laundry on weekends to keep his family in good shape. |
|
frostbite
VIP Member
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 7,121
|
Post by frostbite on Mar 21, 2021 9:12:17 GMT 10
I worked for Centrelink when the original work for the dole system came in. If you want low paid workers replaced by work for dole labour, then this is the way to go. In it's current form the system operates as govt assisted positions, where companies put the unemployed on in low paid positions then get rid of them as soon as the government subsidy ends. Happened to UF2 (the younger stepson).
|
|
|
|
Post by spinifex on Mar 21, 2021 16:13:18 GMT 10
I worked for Centrelink when the original work for the dole system came in. If you want low paid workers replaced by work for dole labour, then this is the way to go. In it's current form the system operates as govt assisted positions, where companies put the unemployed on in low paid positions then get rid of them as soon as the government subsidy ends. Happened to UF2 (the younger stepson). Er ... you worked for Centrelink? |
|
|
|
Post by SA Hunter on Mar 21, 2021 17:24:13 GMT 10
|
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Mar 21, 2021 17:28:00 GMT 10
|
|
|
|
Post by SA Hunter on Mar 21, 2021 17:29:53 GMT 10
|
|
|
|
Post by SA Hunter on Mar 21, 2021 17:43:48 GMT 10
|
|
frostbite
VIP Member
Posts: 5,723
Likes: 7,121
|
Post by frostbite on Mar 21, 2021 19:55:40 GMT 10
I worked for Centrelink when the original work for the dole system came in. If you want low paid workers replaced by work for dole labour, then this is the way to go. In it's current form the system operates as govt assisted positions, where companies put the unemployed on in low paid positions then get rid of them as soon as the government subsidy ends. Happened to UF2 (the younger stepson). Er ... you worked for Centrelink? Yep, 16 years. Ended up hitting the glass ceiling, the latte sippers in higher management couldn't handle a redneck like me, so capped my climb up the ladder and then payed me a small fortune in voluntary redundancy. |
|
|
|
Post by milspec on Mar 21, 2021 20:45:08 GMT 10
I'd love to see a mandatory conscription period. I think it would toughen up a bunch of people and some would discover they are drawn to it. I think on balance it would serve the country well. Your average joe blow who doesnt want to be there will forfeit any .gov assistance and no conscript is going to have a security classification sufficient to do serious harm to the national interest. Joey ... the point you made about recce aircraft being based down south and being short on fuel really isnt an issue. The aircraft transit to and operate from our northern bases for day to day sorties of more than sufficient duration to cover required patrol areas. The logistical resources have long been in place and well exercised to support those routine operations. That maritime patrol stuff is well & truly sorted. |
|
|
|
Post by SA Hunter on Mar 23, 2021 22:48:18 GMT 10
|
|
bug
Senior Member
Posts: 2,318
Likes: 1,934
Member is Online
|
Post by bug on Mar 24, 2021 9:41:08 GMT 10
Now THIS is something I can get behind. I think that's actually something that happened earlier, I know it did in the UK although unsure about Aus. Ultimately you'd need an element of folks to wrangle them but then those who are medically unfit or want to serve but can't for whatever reason could still contribute. Still gives the bludgers the chance to better themselves, gives those who're on the dole through no fault of their own (there are a decent chunk who're on it that would prefer not to be) the opportunity to build up skills and experience that they might otherwise not get exposed to, and free up those who have capacity and ability to serve from roles that don't require specialised training or aren't using their skills effectively. But the point seems moot regardless. How long do social service items like the dole last during war time? From my watching of history docos, basic rations etc. were the norm but if you wanted anything more than basic rations (which as far as I can tell were almost never enough) you had to work your butt off because it wasn't going to be handed to you. Dunno how long your average legitimate bludger (aka. not someone who's genuinely just had a bad time and is down on their luck) would last with their hand out. It sounds good in theory and could work in limited circumstances but what happens to those willing to work and be paid as tree planters, aged care, laundry etc when a wave of subsidised (dole) free workers come along? What happens to the laundry company who struggles to compete? I still like the idea but i think there are other options like breaking rocks by hand at a quarry to save on diesel (yeah i hear the disbelief lol) or boosting the meals on wheels or serving with significance other volunteer organisations. i got a soft spot for laundry cause my father in law had a full time job and then used to work in laundry on weekends to keep his family in good shape. Correctly done, you put people into works that do not really compete with anyone or where current resourcing can't keep up. Eg: litter collection, graffiti removal. It needs to be undesirable work to motivate people to go and get a proper job or lose their government money. |
|
bug
Senior Member
Posts: 2,318
Likes: 1,934
Member is Online
|
Post by bug on Mar 24, 2021 9:42:46 GMT 10
If a western nation had concentration camps like that, there would be NATO military intervention. But it's the CCP, so they get a free pass with a few 'face saving' but ultimately meaningless sanctions tacked on. |
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Mar 24, 2021 10:26:58 GMT 10
They schwacked some similar sanctions in return. Oh noes. Tell you what though, the fact that all the five area getting in on it is some pretty strong signaling. Some people think that outright war is the place to start. I'd rather see us avoid that. But it certainly makes one wonder how much longer it'll be before we don't have any choice. |
|
bug
Senior Member
Posts: 2,318
Likes: 1,934
Member is Online
|
Post by bug on Mar 24, 2021 11:50:53 GMT 10
Devil's advocate time.
Australia pulls out of any anti-china group and keeps selling them minerals. Why do we care if they take control of the south china sea? Yes they are committing genocide. It doesn't affect us since the target group are muslim separatists (the CCP leaves the other non-separatist muslim groups alone). Yes they are undemocratic.
Why would it be worth fighting them on anything other than moral grounds?
|
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Mar 24, 2021 14:07:21 GMT 10
There's no advocating for the devil on this one. Genocide is wrong. End of discussion. There isn't even room for "It doesn't affect us" in my books. It affects a whole group of innocent folk who are weak and undefended from their own government. That alone should raise the hair on the back of the neck of any sensible human being.
But I'll bite. Why do we care if they take over the South China Sea? What on EARTH makes you think they'd stop there? I don't plan on learning Mandarin any time soon, and I certainly don't want my children to have to if they don't want to. And to top it all off, the Uighurs aren't being 'cleansed' because they're Muslim. They're being cleansed because they're from a different ethnic group. The religion thing is just a pathetic excuse.
So they take over more than the SCS. They spread their fingers far and wide. The CCP are in control because it wasn't our problem until it was too late. And my kids or grandkids are on the run and being 're-educated' because they don't have Chinese blood. That's a fight I'd take to the CCP before I allowed it.
I get a theoretical discussion to open up thoughts on things, but there's no room for movement on these factors in my mind. They're already tearing things out of the cold, dead hands of their own people. There's no doubt in my mind that they'll do the same to us eventually if they're not brake-checked. The similarities between early Nazi behaviour and what the CCP is doing now is more than a little bit hackle-inducing.
|
|
