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Post by spinifex on Feb 4, 2023 17:43:16 GMT 10
I've been looking through many old threads to see members ideas on INCH preparation.
Many of us here are set up to Bug-in and many are set up to Bug Out. We focus our planning and discussions accordingly.
By comparison, we don't seem to have put very much thought or content into the "I'm never coming Home" (INCH) scenario of prepatorial activity. Admittedly ... the kinds of events that can trigger this category of activity are the very rare ones ... but IF they happen I think they'll be by far the hardest to deal with. The kind of event I'm talking about is invasion by a vastly overwhelming hostile military bent on eradication of part or all of our population. This scenario DOES happen. It happened to some of my ancestors in 1944-45 in eastern Europe. Many of them didn't make it out alive and those that did had a very, very rough time. Their survival strategy was to make their way several hundred kilometers west to escape the territory captured by the Soviet Union and rebuild a life in Western Europe or other parts of the Globe. A similar fate befell many South swedish in 1975.
So I'm interested in any and all ideas on the following: 1. What events (other than military invasion and genocide as described above) could trigger the INCH scenario and make a static BOL unsuitable/unusable? 2. What scale/style of INCH kit would be best. (Backpack, hand cart, pack-bike, other? Some combination of styles?) 3. What is the long term survival target in these scenario's (eg. Establishing a static or mobile camp in a very remote part of Australia, taking a boat out of of Australia and making it to another country (if so; which countries are feasible to reach and might offer a new beginning) 4. What would be the essential/core items to have in the INCH kit to make a small group highly self sufficent but remain mobile? 5. What is a good size range for a group that needs to make it through an INCH scenario?
Hopefully we get plenty of ideas and debate!
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Post by spinifex on Feb 5, 2023 9:42:51 GMT 10
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Feb 5, 2023 11:02:25 GMT 10
That is a doable option. Obviously, there will be Pirates on the high seas, but there will be marauders on land as well.
We are at our BOL, established with gardens, water, solar, accommodation and so on, and I have given some thought to a backup INCH plan.
We do have several hundred HA of National Park and Crown Land to the south and east of us, but there may be several thousand or even hundred of thousands with the same idea.
Strategic treaties may be in order for those who stay with you, or who you let stay.
If it has come to that, then its almost all over, we are quite isolated and its a long walk from town to get here, with lots of opportunities for marauding along the way that are easier to access than here.
The swedish boat people knew the land they were coming to wouldn't exactly welcome them, but wasn't out to kill them either. Things would be different in a collapse situation. Its gunna be everyone for themselves I suspect.
I don't think it would last decades, as there are not enough resources to support a large population living off the land. Our wildlife isn't as abundant as say in the USA, where they have bears and lots of deer etc, and, even though we have deer, they are not in such numbers that would support large nomadic groups. The die off will be great initially, tapering off as people find their niches to survive.
If we ever have to INCH it out of here, things have turned really bad, and its probably not survivable anywhere, say Nuclear fallout. Unless you have a well stocked bunker that can carry you through for several decades until its safe to emerge, its all finished, especially as we are isolated from the major players in the northern hemisphere. Pine Gap and Honeysuckle Creek are to the west and with the prevailing westerly winds, if nuked, could spread radiation over a large area of the north of Australia. Time can be the help here as the really bad radio-nuclides have relatively short 1/2 lives, so a few weeks sheltering in place would probably make survival more possible.
When Ive expended all the ammo, the Worlds a radio active wasteland, and we are dying of radiation sickness, I still will have 9 rounds left, plus one for the dog as we are part of his pack. That's probably being blunt, and it hopefully never gets to that point, but that's the ultimate backup plan.
However, the Good Book gives us hope, that "If these days were not shortened, no life would be left on the Earth", so there is a hope of a Remanent surviving to see the second coming. Sorry if some are offended by that statement, but we are told that 3 1/2 years after the falling away, Jesus is coming back, the same way he left over 2,000 years ago. We don't know when, but if you believe that, then we only have to survive for 3 1/2 years (1,260 days). That is also doable.
Ive read the final chapter...God wins.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Feb 5, 2023 14:41:35 GMT 10
I have put a lot of work into INCH bag scenario. General ItemsEarly Aus explores came unstuck with food, but now there are more roos, rabbits and birds due to all farm dams and more access to water. Take air rifle for birds, I think one could live off small birds, fishing nets, rods, veg seeds, multi vitamins. Mosquito nets, barometer, I have an extensive list, but there is plenty on YT and WWW. LocationI have done some research on locations to bug out... My top pics are an old abandoned mining village and some islands of TAS coast, local primary school with good fencing and sports ground easily to defend .. I have been planning a road trip to some abandoned mining villages if anyone is up for a road trip. Examples of persons bugging our for 3-5 years.Some research that I have done, in most cases people survived by having a veg garden even taking chickens with them. Some light reading below. Tom Neale give details on what he took with. archive.org/details/shelteringdesert007109mbp/mode/1up?view=theaterwww.thisisaprivatesale.com/an_island_to_oneself.pdfWhen to bug out.
Good vid of when to bug out, I have posted this before.. She uses the GREAT acronym for decision making. G = Gut Feeling , bad feeling!! R = Resource dwindling, lack of food and water E = Environment is unsafe, Pandemic, fire, flood, storm, radiation etc.. A = Attack likely Military invasion, gangs riots looting T = Threat escalating Any threat that is escalating and likely to impact the location where you are,
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Feb 5, 2023 15:23:52 GMT 10
My king of INCH bag and carry system.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Feb 5, 2023 16:19:51 GMT 10
Didn't see any emergency comms gear, even a small AM/FM/SW radio with spare battery's will give some intel, even local radio would be of help. My current favorite, that I carry in my BHB, is the Jaycar AR1721, cost is $40, and it can be recharged with a solar USB kit. Pretty sensitive too, can pick up most international broadcast stations at night, along with a lot of interstate AM radio as well. The FM section is a bit deaf, but still, FM is really only meant for local reception anyway. A small wire attached to the aerial will bring in any station you may need to listen to. The MP3 player is a bit fiddly, but does work. Volume is more than adequate, and the headphone socket s wired for stereo FM, if available. Its also small and lightweight. Probably not particularly water proof, but a zip lock plastic bag will fix that. www.jaycar.com.au/am-fm-sw-rechargeable-radio-with-mp3/p/AR1721I said I will fix it, then there is no need to remind me every 6 months.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Feb 5, 2023 20:31:07 GMT 10
Didn't see any emergency comms gear, even a small AM/FM/SW radio with spare battery's will give some intel, even local radio would be of help.... A lot of bob/inch bags are very light on food gathering and comms. I have a number of hand crank radios with tourch that also have solar charge I also have a number of micro solar charges, one can fit a lot of info on a tablet. Smart phones can pick up radio as well. US bags are overly focused on security, the UK bags are very light on food gathering.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Feb 6, 2023 6:46:21 GMT 10
A true "inch kit" needs a ute or at least a quad or atv with a trailer to carry it not a 90ltr pack and that's coming from someone who truly spent 75% of their time carrying heavy packs as an integral part of their employment / life journey.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Feb 6, 2023 7:31:52 GMT 10
Rather than INCHing it out, a better strategy may be a small BOB with enough gear for a few days, and a plan to retake your location from whoever took it over. That assumes that you have to leave because of marauders, and not environmental concerns such as Nuke contamination etc.
Another thought...A stash of grog, hidden, but in a way to be found relatively easily, may cause the invaders to consume it and give the advantage to you in retaking your BOL.
I have visited several abandoned mining towns, Yerranderee and around Bathurst in NSW, and the number of holes in the ground that are perfect for defense is astounding.
A half decent Ute, can carry a lot of INCH kit, spare fuel and so on, more than enough to set up a semi permanent campsite outside of the city. I agree a quad or ATV would be useful as well, but probably more visible and attention getting than an old Ute with a tarp.
All that said, I am planning for the threat of marauders wanting our resources, as the nuke option, economic collapse, and so on, are all low down on the list of things that you can either not do anything about, or survive with some pre-planning and thought.
I'm not arguing, just explaining why I am right.
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Post by Stealth on Feb 6, 2023 12:42:09 GMT 10
A true "inch kit" needs a ute or at least a quad or atv with a trailer to carry it not a 90ltr pack and that's coming from someone who truly spent 75% of their time carrying heavy packs as an integral part of their employment / life journey. Agreed. Always spins me out that people create INCH rigs and put them in a backpack. Even a large hiking pack. I hate to be that guy (*cough chick cough*) but if you're trying to carry everything you'll need to survive indefinitely because you're 'never coming home', you're probably really just carrying a really heavy BoB with less capacity than you'll truly need. There's no room for decent garden tools in an INCH bag. There's no space to carry reference books for medical situations. There's no way to ensure that you have enough food for a month or more of inability to hunt or farm if necessary due to illness or injury. Hunting rig is heavy too. Ammo and rifles aren't bad if that's all you're carrying but if you're also carrying a huge pack full of everything you might need to get through a few months or longer purely on your back alone, you're probably going to have a bad time. In my mind a BoB is everything you need to survive with absolutely no conveniences included. It's supposed to help you get to where you need to be. INCH is that and then a lot of stuff that you need to thrive. You can live without a full sized shovel, but try gardening in your regular home garden with an entrenching tool. It gets old really quickly. So garden tools go in the INCH bracket for me. And to INCH properly, you'd need a trailer/tray to carry that kind of stuff. Obviously it really doesn't matter how we label these things. It's just a collection of stuff that makes life easier. Or survivable. But I definitely agree that if I'm never coming home I'm going to want far more carrying capacity than a pack provides. I've seen a few channels where people have made INCH trailers that stay packed up and ready to go in their garage at a moment's notice. I have a trailer for my bike that is a back up plan for relocating in the instance of fuel shortage or when it's safer to travel quietly but to be honest even that doesn't provide adequate 'INCH' space IMO. Even that's been put in the 'nice to have but definitely not top of the list' category. I can carry an extra probably 80kg max if packed effectively. I might be able to strap some tools to the side but it'd be awkward and unwieldy and likely they'd be ditched fairly quickly in aid of faster movement or if one of the kids couldn't ride for some reason. So really it doesn't provide much INCH utility.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Feb 6, 2023 16:16:26 GMT 10
A true "inch kit" needs a ute or at least a quad or atv with a trailer to carry it not a 90ltr pack and that's coming from someone who truly spent 75% of their time carrying heavy packs as an integral part of their employment / life journey. Agreed. Always spins me out that people create INCH rigs and put them in a backpack. Even a large hiking pack. I hate to be that guy (*cough chick cough*) but if you're trying to carry everything you'll need to survive indefinitely because you're 'never coming home', you're probably really just carrying a really heavy BoB with less capacity than you'll truly need...... There is not much suitable wilderness left, most are now developed, all the big rivers are taken. INCH bags are almost always a lone wolf type bag. It it is a family or small group, not every one needs to pack an axe, rifles, snares, fishing kit and rods etc... Weight is reduced by a third, there is space for gardening tools: Just remember to take small paint brush to fertilize the plants and bees etc.. are not likely to be around, it is little things, that takes real research to get right equipment.
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Post by spinifex on Feb 6, 2023 18:30:26 GMT 10
A true "inch kit" needs a ute or at least a quad or atv with a trailer to carry it not a 90ltr pack and that's coming from someone who truly spent 75% of their time carrying heavy packs as an integral part of their employment / life journey. I'm not sure about this concept of big, motorised INCH kits. At a strategic level ... I think the results are better to get out on a boat and start again in a less threateneing environment. I guess it has merit for those planning on remaining inside the national borders for decades. I used to hold that view for a long time and had a few really good INCH survival locations identified in the central deserts ... ranging from 50 to several hundered KM away from the nearest towns and road network access. They had reliable water, favorable topography for concealment and security measures. I planned to take my 4wd and trailer in and then heavily conceal it and cover the last 20km of tracks made by the vehicle and fake a turn-around so it looks like the car went back out again. I had designs for 'concealed agriculture' to grow crops of vegetables and grains that would blend in with the natural vegetation when observed from the air and experimented withthese designs in a patch of native scrub near where I currently live. I worked out a kit along the following lines: 30 rabbit traps, .22 rifle with 1000 rnds of subsonic, .308 with 200 rounds, .44mag with 300 rounds (I figure by the time that ammo is anywhere near being used up it will have deteriorated and be unreliable anyway - so no point taking any more), longbow with 50 aluminium shaft arrows, 2 X complete butchery knife sets and sharpening stone. 2 sets of quality binoculars. Magnifying glass. home made water still fueled by a campfire that can purify 60 litres of water a day. 10m coil of copper pipe. 10 X 2L glass 'flagons' 500kg of whole wheat in 2 sealed steel drums, 50kg of sugar, 200kg of salt bagged and stored in a steel drum. 10 litres of sunflower oil (any more is a waste as it goes rancid after a few years even with the best of storage.) 1kg of whole peppercorns. 1kg of Star anise. 250g pack of whole cloves (all spices sealed in seperate metal tins. 5kg of coffee beans sealed in glass jars. 36 big fowlers vacola jars, spare rubber seals. a big sheet of brown truck-tarp able to provide a 6X4 metre roof, several coils of light hemp type rope, 12 steel spikes, 12 litres of linseed oil. various saws, axes, spades, mattocks, rakes, crow bar, brace and bit with 30 bits ranging from 8mm to 25mm, complete set of carpentry tools and metal working tools. a 200L drum full of work clothes and underware. Sewing kit with 1000's metres of thread, several rolls of dental floss and several packets of mixed sized needles. Washable bum wiping cloths. 2 X 50m Rolls of 10mm sized bird wire, plain wire of different gauges, 20X6ft star pickets large steel box full of vegetable seeds and 3 X 1L containers of different mode of action commercial insecticides Repairable backpack chemical sprayer. Sheets of leather and good quality rubber, 1000m of nylon string, 1000m of cotton string, 1000m of fishing line, lidded bucket of assorted nails, screws, bolts, assorted pieces of metal rod, flats, angle iron etc A small anvil made from a 40cm length of heavy rail. 10 X ferro rods 20 X wool blankets. 2 X big, heavy mortar and pestles, 1 oil press that works using a car jack. Full set of enameled cast iron cookware, 4 quality stainless steel saucepans/pots 3 X Quality made day packs Outback rated first aid kit and various medicines. I'll have to try and find my original inventory list as I think theres a bit missing in the above list.
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Post by spinifex on Feb 6, 2023 18:41:54 GMT 10
A true "inch kit" needs a ute or at least a quad or atv with a trailer to carry it not a 90ltr pack and that's coming from someone who truly spent 75% of their time carrying heavy packs as an integral part of their employment / life journey. Agreed. Always spins me out that people create INCH rigs and put them in a backpack. Even a large hiking pack. I hate to be that guy (*cough chick cough*) but if you're trying to carry everything you'll need to survive indefinitely because you're 'never coming home', you're probably really just carrying a really heavy BoB with less capacity than you'll truly need. There's no room for decent garden tools in an INCH bag. There's no space to carry reference books for medical situations. There's no way to ensure that you have enough food for a month or more of inability to hunt or farm if necessary due to illness or injury. Hunting rig is heavy too. Ammo and rifles aren't bad if that's all you're carrying but if you're also carrying a huge pack full of everything you might need to get through a few months or longer purely on your back alone, you're probably going to have a bad time. In my mind a BoB is everything you need to survive with absolutely no conveniences included. It's supposed to help you get to where you need to be. INCH is that and then a lot of stuff that you need to thrive. You can live without a full sized shovel, but try gardening in your regular home garden with an entrenching tool. It gets old really quickly. So garden tools go in the INCH bracket for me. And to INCH properly, you'd need a trailer/tray to carry that kind of stuff. Obviously it really doesn't matter how we label these things. It's just a collection of stuff that makes life easier. Or survivable. But I definitely agree that if I'm never coming home I'm going to want far more carrying capacity than a pack provides. I've seen a few channels where people have made INCH trailers that stay packed up and ready to go in their garage at a moment's notice. I have a trailer for my bike that is a back up plan for relocating in the instance of fuel shortage or when it's safer to travel quietly but to be honest even that doesn't provide adequate 'INCH' space IMO. Even that's been put in the 'nice to have but definitely not top of the list' category. I can carry an extra probably 80kg max if packed effectively. I might be able to strap some tools to the side but it'd be awkward and unwieldy and likely they'd be ditched fairly quickly in aid of faster movement or if one of the kids couldn't ride for some reason. So really it doesn't provide much INCH utility. It all depends on the inch strategy and the expectation of quality of life. Blackfellas INCH'ed all day every day for 40, 000 years. They didn't focus on items of possession ... they survived on very intimate knowledge of the landscape in which they lived. They knew what was where, when it was there, how to get it or how to make it ... all with less kit than a pocket knife and a ball of string. But ... their quality of life was waaaaaay lower than what we think of as "essential" Those that INCHed their way to new lands from vietnam and eastern europe could only take what they carried on themselves. Those that tried it with more (ie using wagons etc) soon found themselves dumping stuff or having it stolen.
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Post by spinifex on Feb 6, 2023 18:46:08 GMT 10
Rather than INCHing it out, a better strategy may be a small BOB with enough gear for a few days, and a plan to retake your location from whoever took it over. That assumes that you have to leave because of marauders, and not environmental concerns such as Nuke contamination etc. Another thought...A stash of grog, hidden, but in a way to be found relatively easily, may cause the invaders to consume it and give the advantage to you in retaking your BOL. I have visited several abandoned mining towns, Yerranderee and around Bathurst in NSW, and the number of holes in the ground that are perfect for defense is astounding. A half decent Ute, can carry a lot of INCH kit, spare fuel and so on, more than enough to set up a semi permanent campsite outside of the city. I agree a quad or ATV would be useful as well, but probably more visible and attention getting than an old Ute with a tarp. All that said, I am planning for the threat of marauders wanting our resources, as the nuke option, economic collapse, and so on, are all low down on the list of things that you can either not do anything about, or survive with some pre-planning and thought. I'm not arguing, just explaining why I am right. When a Soviet style occupation force arrives in numbers to genocide the area ... you aint getting your BOL back. They come in numbers and with armour, air support and artillery. You are INCHing it ... far, far ... away.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Feb 6, 2023 19:53:52 GMT 10
“When a Soviet style occupation force arrives in numbers to genocide the area ... you aint getting your BOL back. They come in numbers and with armour, air support and artillery. You are INCHing it ... far, far ... away.”
Ah, you mean the Victorian Police force, in your suburb to beat you to death for travelling 1m outside your exclusion zone or exercising 1 minute longer than the permitted hour?
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Feb 6, 2023 20:35:16 GMT 10
A true "inch kit" needs a ute or at least a quad or atv with a trailer to carry it not a 90ltr pack and that's coming from someone who truly spent 75% of their time carrying heavy packs as an integral part of their employment / life journey. I'm not sure about this concept of big, motorised INCH kits. At a strategic level ... I think the results are better to get out on a boat and start again in a less threateneing environment. I guess it has merit for those planning on remaining inside the national borders for decades. I used to hold that view for a long time and had a few really good INCH survival locations identified in the central deserts ... ranging from 50 to several hundered KM away from the nearest towns and road network access. They had reliable water, favorable topography for concealment and security measures. I planned to take my 4wd and trailer in and then heavily conceal it and cover the last 20km of tracks made by the vehicle and fake a turn-around so it looks like the car went back out again. I had designs for 'concealed agriculture' to grow crops of vegetables and grains that would blend in with the natural vegetation when observed from the air and experimented withthese designs in a patch of native scrub near where I currently live. I think it is a good strategy, come shtf most will be out of fuel, without skills and equipment to survive in very remote locations. If one leaves early you will have the place to yourself. Many reduce the size of INCH bag by having cashes at bugout locations.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Feb 7, 2023 4:17:54 GMT 10
94% of Australians will bend over and comply with whatever the draconian regime dictates. That’s a proven fact.
So you will only need to share this huge outback with the 6% who still have a spine. Plenty of room.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Feb 7, 2023 7:45:56 GMT 10
“When a Soviet style occupation force arrives in numbers to genocide the area ... you aint getting your BOL back. They come in numbers and with armour, air support and artillery. You are INCHing it ... far, far ... away.”
Invaded ? By whom ?
There is a reason most live on the seaboards, its so dry, and to survive inland would require constant movement, like the indigenous peoples did for generations.
I realize there are many countries that look upon Australia as blessed, both with resources and climate/land, but we are reasonably strongly protected with various treaties, such as ANZUS and our relationship with the USA, even though the US is weakening.
Russia ? Russia is probably about to implode back into separate states, as it was before the 1919 revolution.
China ? Yes, they may just waltz in and take over, but the above treaties would mean it could be an expensive exercise, both militarily and in terms of World social standing. And getting far enough away from the technology that can find you, like drones, would be difficulty, notwithstanding our vast inland distances.
India ? There would be worse things than Government under the Indian system.
North Korea ? One flash and they would be ash.
No, an invasion is probably not very likely.
Other major threats.
Internal overthrow ? I think that may be an outside possibility, but would be very quick and result in a swift response by the Crown, as we are still a Monarchical Republic and the Govt of the time can call on the monarchy for help in perilous times.
Economic collapse ? This is more likely every day as Governments go further into debt.
Nuclear war ? Getting more likely every day with this Ukrainian tubesteak up.
There are so many things that could happen, and some are multiple threats, that we can just prep as best we can, be ready to modify the plan on the fly, and have basic bug out gear ready. There just isn't enough wild foods in the bush to sustain more than a small subsistence population, like our indigenous ancestors were, for very long. What resources there were would soon be exhausted, and then you are back to a subsistence level of survival, trying to grow food in a semi arid area with little water. This is the equivalent of a semi permanent BOL anyway, so make a good job of it and do it properly. Anyway, an invading force would want to have the country subdued and functioning as soon as possible, and after the initial onslaught, and would probably leave most alone to continue life as best they could, even at a subsistence level of growing their own food. Look at the countries that Germany subdued in WW2, most were left to function, albeit for the Nazis, but most people could survive.
Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Feb 7, 2023 10:46:58 GMT 10
Ah, you mean the Victorian Police force, in your suburb to beat you to death for travelling 1m outside your exclusion zone or exercising 1 minute longer than the permitted hour? I walked around the deserted Melbourne CBD for hours taking photos of the landscape because I knew it probably wouldn't be seen again in my lifetime - totally bereft of humans, except for the odd walker and the cop posse who never asked me what I was doing. They were nearly always young recruits with one older cop baby sitting them. I was never hassled for the whole lockdown - not once...and I was out most days.
Just a bit of perspective for the other people here - someone who was "on the ground" so to speak.
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Post by spinifex on Feb 8, 2023 18:33:26 GMT 10
“When a Soviet style occupation force arrives in numbers to genocide the area ... you aint getting your BOL back. They come in numbers and with armour, air support and artillery. You are INCHing it ... far, far ... away.” Ah, you mean the Victorian Police force, in your suburb to beat you to death for travelling 1m outside your exclusion zone or exercising 1 minute longer than the permitted hour? Amusing ... but ... no. The Vic Police would lack the ability to crush Prussian civilisation East of the Vistula. They only have pistols and Tazers. My people were chased by T34's, JS II's and motorised Siberian regiments while being routinely straffed and bombed by Sturmoviks and Yaks and shelled by heavy artillery and Stalins Organs. Some that made it onto ships on the Prussian Coast were torpedoed by Soviet Subs.
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